Digest for alt.sports.hockey.nhl.mtl-canadiens@googlegroups.com - 25 updates in 5 topics

Saturday, July 1, 2017

Mike <mike@gmail.com>: Jul 01 03:09PM -0300

https://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzlle?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
Mike <mike@gmail.com>: Jul 01 03:13PM -0300

On 2017-07-01 03:09 PM, Mike wrote:
> https://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzlle?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
 
nevermind - BS - I was had :-(
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jul 01 11:13AM -0700

On Saturday, July 1, 2017 at 2:09:34 PM UTC-4, Mike wrote:
> https://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzlle?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
 
Huge for the team IMHO. Maybe it's a year more than they wanted, maybe it's a year less than Radulov wanted. But it's what the Habs needed, very desperately.
 
Near thing for Bergevin. "Almost messed it up" won't be remembered.
 
l8r,
Gerry
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jul 01 11:14AM -0700

On Saturday, July 1, 2017 at 2:13:59 PM UTC-4, Gerry wrote:
 
> Near thing for Bergevin. "Almost messed it up" won't be remembered.
 
> l8r,
> Gerry
 
Haha, I was had at second hand! ;)
 
l8r,
Gerry
Mike <mike@gmail.com>: Jul 01 09:36AM -0300

On 2017-06-30 09:43 PM, Gerry wrote:
 
> I guess it's good for the players, but it does take some excitement away from Frenzy day, maybe?
 
> l8r,
> Gerry
 
Speaking of FA Frenzy - I see Steph Curry has signed a 5 year $201M
contract - $40M a year!! Jesus.
 
Looks like Markov will hit the open market by everything I read. If he
was looking for 2 years @6M I think I may have been tempted to give it
to him unless of course I had another poker in the fire like say Alzner
for 5 years @5M or something. Then I may have no choice. Latest I heard
on him was the Jets and Habs were in on him and the Jets have cooled to
him and he is the prototypical Bergy player - not flashy, dependable,
doesn't make mistakes. They love that in Montreal.
 
On Radulov, its a shame to see him go but we cant forget that for all
his pure enjoyment he brought to the team and the fans he did get only
get 54 points. OTOH, put him with Drouin and Galchenyuk and maybe you
get 3 guys with about 70 points each so there is that. I do think if
he's looking for a long term deal then the money has to progressively
decline over the length of that deal so maybe I propose
$7M,$7M,$7M,$6M,$5M,$4M,$4M - that like a $5.7M hit. See if he takes
that. If he wants more, well he's got to go to market but I leave that
on the table. Either that or I offer him 4 years @$7M.
 
I'm not sure what Bargain Bergy has up his sleeve but if we lose Markov,
Radulov and gain 3 or 4 plugs in their place then they take a serious
risk with Carey Price. Certainly, if I'm Price I'm taking a long serious
look at this team next week and asking myself some hard questions. Money
and minimal chance of winning a cup here in Montreal or money and a much
better chance of winning a cup in a place like Toronto. I know what I'd
do. And we can forget about hometown discounts with him btw. He's a
strong union guy and he knows by deflating his value he could have an
affect on the overall market so he won't go there. He'll want $11M and a
chance at winning a cup. Depending on today, we could be witnessing the
end of the Carey Price era in Montreal.
 
If BBB can fill the #2 defenceman job, land a centre or failing that,
land Radulov and Galchenyuk then this is a better team than last year
and there is some hope that they could roll at the right time especially
with a much better coach. We'll see. In a day or two we should have a
much better feel for the team.
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jul 01 06:52AM -0700

Great post Mike!
 
On the Markov file, I can definitely see being leery about the $6Mx2yrs. I could see $6M/1yr, or maybe $4.5M for 2 years, but the Habs take a lot of risk with a 35+ contract that stays on the cap NO MATTER WHAT, so I think a player ought to give some concessions back on that. It will be awfully ironic if they turn around and sign other older fading players like Thornton (or Doan, Iginla, Beachemin, etc), however. More weird double standards if it goes that way.
 
I'd give Markov 2x$6M before giving Alzer 5x$5M, though. Alzner has lost that fatal step already according to now-hundreds of posts I've read from Caps fans. Even though he's not that old, he'll need some kind of miraculous training/body regeneration to get back to his past level. I'm not sure if the security of a juicy long term contract is great motivation for getting there. Alzner's a good defender inside his zone, but we're starting to tip too far in that direction... these guys are going to get pinned in their own zone, and even if they are good positionally and physically, they can't move the puck or drive possession, they'll give up and block a lot of shots, and it's not going to be good for the team overall IMHO.
 
> $7M,$7M,$7M,$6M,$5M,$4M,$4M - that like a $5.7M hit. See if he takes
> that. If he wants more, well he's got to go to market but I leave that
> on the table. Either that or I offer him 4 years @$7M.
 
I like this offer. I mean, the Habs are stuck. They are up that creek with no other paddle, and if they haven't already burned bridges with hardball negotiating, they need to get back in the door somehow with Radulov. Nobody really *wants* to pay him $7M or give him a 7-year term, but when you're stuck between a rock and hard place, you can't just let the team disintegrate. They have the cap room, so as long as it's still mathematically possible, they ought to just swallow their pride and accept that they got out-maneuvered by the market. Sometimes that is going to happen. When it does, you have to grit your teeth and accept it before letting the team crater.
 
> and there is some hope that they could roll at the right time especially
> with a much better coach. We'll see. In a day or two we should have a
> much better feel for the team.
 
I don't think there is a clear #2 defenseman on the market at all. Markov and Shattenkirk maybe, but Shattenkirk isn't coming. After that, wow, it's all bottom-3 guys. And I don't believe there is a clear top-6 forward either... at all. Unless the Sharks guys don't re-sign with the Sharks, I suppose. But any possible top-6 guys have major age issues. Habs are in deep trouble IMHO... it's basically Radulov and Markov or a pile of lesser vets.
 
Frankly, I'd be talking to Vegas. If they are trying to dump guys, and the Methot trade is any indication, then anything you can do to land a James Neal or another D from them cheaply might be the best fallback.
 
In a normal UFA year, getting to July 1st without Radulov and Markov signed wouldn't have been that much of a disaster, because there's usually a much better field of available players. But getting to this stage of desperation in this year's market is a huge strike against Bergevin IMHO. Or at least, it's likely to be... he has some chance to pull rabbits out of his hat, maybe... I guess we'll see in about 8 hours!
 
l8r,
Gerry
TheMadApe <chiefape@gmail.com>: Jul 01 11:04AM -0300

On 2017-07-01 10:52 AM, Gerry wrote:
 
> In a normal UFA year, getting to July 1st without Radulov and Markov signed wouldn't have been that much of a disaster, because there's usually a much better field of available players. But getting to this stage of desperation in this year's market is a huge strike against Bergevin IMHO. Or at least, it's likely to be... he has some chance to pull rabbits out of his hat, maybe... I guess we'll see in about 8 hours!
 
> l8r,
> Gerry
 
Aaron Ward‏ @NHL_AaronWard 19m19 minutes ago
 
Unofficially hearing Alzner and Montreal Canadiens have agreed on a 5
year deal at roughly $4.5M per. #TSN
 
Some of these teams are going to lose draft picks for talking price and
term prior to the the frenzy.
 
 
 
TMA
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jul 01 07:21AM -0700

On Saturday, July 1, 2017 at 10:04:13 AM UTC-4, The Mad Ape wrote:
> year deal at roughly $4.5M per. #TSN
 
> Some of these teams are going to lose draft picks for talking price and
> term prior to the the frenzy.
 
It's not the worst that deal could have been... Alzner is more consistent and smarter than Emelin, although without the hitting specialty. I don't know if he's a net better player or not. He used to be. But people who think he is are looking past the last couple years according to anything I've read. Still, we hated the Emelin contract. If you just replace it for 5 more years, it won't help.
 
He seems like a good team guy, though (another one) and perhaps in the BC-clique with Weber and Price that would help encourage Price to stick around.
 
I imagine they'll have too tough a time proving the negotiation of terms to be able to levy penalties. It seems like EVERY team has basically fully talked terms, so it's not really going to be possible to fine 31 teams. They'll just let it go, IMHO, even though we've already had clear reports of several UFA signings with full contract details already (still TBD if they turn out to be accurate, but supposing they do).
 
Habs are going to have a strangely throwback style of defense this season, looks like. Not a single real puck mover. Schlemko and Petry skate reasonably well, but the team will be far below average overall in terms of mobility and transition. I was hoping Julien could help take this team away from the risk-averse style, but how do you do that when dump-it-out almost has to be the defense priority by design???
 
l8r,
Gerry
TheMadApe <chiefape@gmail.com>: Jul 01 11:31AM -0300

On 2017-06-30 09:43 PM, Gerry wrote:
 
> I guess it's good for the players, but it does take some excitement away from Frenzy day, maybe?
 
> l8r,
> Gerry
 
According to Pierre Lebrun Jagr will not be resigned by Florida. He
still has game...46 points last year. A 1 year stop-gap until next year?
 
Too bad he was not a center then I'd say go for it.
 
TMA
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jul 01 08:01AM -0700

On Saturday, July 1, 2017 at 10:31:47 AM UTC-4, The Mad Ape wrote:
 
> According to Pierre Lebrun Jagr will not be resigned by Florida. He
> still has game...46 points last year. A 1 year stop-gap until next year?
 
> Too bad he was not a center then I'd say go for it.
 
I think the ship has sailed. I'm shocked how slow he looks, yet still gets that many points. I don't think he'd get anything if he was on a team where he was actually expected to play seriously, instead of as more of a gimmick. Habs can't afford a gimmick player. He'd probably be fine on the PP, though.
 
Looks like the Habs are in on Nick Bonino too... it's funny, we railed against the Emelin and Plekanec deals for a while now, but I'd say they'll just be stretching that situation out for another half-decade if they lock up Alzner and Bonino. Decent players, but if you have something approaching $10M on these guys, it's not going to be easy to take the next step.
 
l8r,
Gerry
TheMadApe <chiefape@gmail.com>: Jul 01 12:23PM -0300

On 2017-07-01 12:01 PM, Gerry wrote:
 
> Looks like the Habs are in on Nick Bonino too... it's funny, we railed against the Emelin and Plekanec deals for a while now, but I'd say they'll just be stretching that situation out for another half-decade if they lock up Alzner and Bonino. Decent players, but if you have something approaching $10M on these guys, it's not going to be easy to take the next step.
 
> l8r,
> Gerry
 
Bonino signing in Nashville. Dreger just tweeted it - 4 yr deal.
 
TMA
Chuck <barberphoto411@gmail.com>: Jul 01 08:28AM -0700

A lot of fake news on twitter, hard to tell which tweets are real
TheMadApe <chiefape@gmail.com>: Jul 01 12:40PM -0300

On 2017-07-01 12:28 PM, Chuck wrote:
> A lot of fake news on twitter, hard to tell which tweets are real
 
They are from verified accounts. They are saying it on the air too,
 
TMA
TheMadApe <chiefape@gmail.com>: Jul 01 01:17PM -0300

On 2017-07-01 11:21 AM, Gerry wrote:
 
> Habs are going to have a strangely throwback style of defense this season, looks like. Not a single real puck mover. Schlemko and Petry skate reasonably well, but the team will be far below average overall in terms of mobility and transition. I was hoping Julien could help take this team away from the risk-averse style, but how do you do that when dump-it-out almost has to be the defense priority by design???
 
> l8r,
> Gerry
 
Confirmed at $4.625 per for 5 years.
 
TMA
TheMadApe <chiefape@gmail.com>: Jul 01 01:20PM -0300

On 2017-06-30 09:43 PM, Gerry wrote:
 
> I guess it's good for the players, but it does take some excitement away from Frenzy day, maybe?
 
> l8r,
> Gerry
 
As oer Pierre LeBrun Radulov not out of it yet. Bidding war between
Dallas & Montreal. Stumbling block is term.
 
TMA
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jul 01 10:25AM -0700

For the record I don't see any harm in the Peter Holland and Byron Froese signings... this is making Laval better IMHO. It's like the Chris Terry signing. Now that the farm team is in the backyard, maybe they are finally thinking they can't afford to let it languish to the same extent?
 
If for any reason either of these guys ever makes the team, or gets called up as an injury replacement, fine, but I don't look at these signings with the Habs' lineup in mind.
 
I'm maybe a little surprised they didn't go for more of a PQ local flavour in these types of adds, but that's about it. They'll kill it in the AHL.
 
l8r,
Gerry
Chuck <barberphoto411@gmail.com>: Jul 01 10:31AM -0700

Or they plan on ditching Mitchell as part of a package. The day has been slow for trades. I expect trades to be triggered once higher profile UFAs are signed or off the table
Mike <mike@gmail.com>: Jul 01 02:35PM -0300

On 2017-07-01 01:20 PM, TheMadApe wrote:
 
> As oer Pierre LeBrun Radulov not out of it yet. Bidding war between
> Dallas & Montreal. Stumbling block is term.
 
> TMA
If they sign Thornton and Radulov I think they have a chance next year
to do some damage.
TheMadApe <chiefape@gmail.com>: Jul 01 02:36PM -0300

On 2017-07-01 02:25 PM, Gerry wrote:
 
> I'm maybe a little surprised they didn't go for more of a PQ local flavour in these types of adds, but that's about it. They'll kill it in the AHL.
 
> l8r,
> Gerry
 
Holland has a one-way so I expect him, hell he expect him to play (saw
his interview) in the NHL.
 
TMA
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jul 01 10:43AM -0700

Naw, to me the Holland thing in his interview is maybe a little wishful thinking on his part and a little salesmanship on the Habs' part. He hasn't been able to stick on some really awful teams like the Leafs and Coyotes. He was a good prospect once upon a team, but it's a little over-optimistic to me to think he is going to step up into a full-time NHL job at this point.
 
The thing teams do with top AHL players now is give them a year of a 1-way salary. Habs have done that themselves. It keeps the player from signing somewhere else or in Europe. They can be AHL superstars, and injury call-ups, but you still don't worry about losing them on waivers in October. I think that's the niche Holland and Froese fill. If for any reason they do end up with the big team, bonus, but that's not the blueprint.
 
l8r,
Gerry
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jul 01 11:10AM -0700

And Matt Taormina now too fits totally into that plan. He is huge in the AHL. It's a good sign for Laval! It's not like the Habs are stocking them with a ton of real prospects anyway, so these kinds of guys are going to make the farm team a little more positive.
 
l8r,
Gerry
TheMadApe <chiefape@gmail.com>: Jul 01 01:27PM -0300

On 2017-06-30 01:31 PM, TheMadApe wrote:
 
> Cammalleri will get more goals than Radulov. He may be a 2nd best and
> had a good price.
 
> TMA
 
Cammalleri to Kings for 1 year ~ Nick Kypreos.
 
TMA
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jul 01 10:21AM -0700

On Saturday, July 1, 2017 at 12:27:13 PM UTC-4, The Mad Ape wrote:
> Cammalleri to Kings for 1 year ~ Nick Kypreos.
 
1 year and $1M is no risk. To me, *IF* the Habs didn't sign Radulov, I'd have done this for Cammie. He can score 18 goals, for sure. But the Habs are still stuck trying to figure out if they can sign Radulov or not. Too bad they couldn't have anticipated the market a little better.
 
l8r,
Gerry
gorgofromns@gmail.com: Jul 01 08:20AM -0700

It's known that Radu prefers the wing. In any event, if all else fails and the Habs don't get a top centre but keep Radu and Chuckie, they could operate on the premise that both Radu and Drouin play the wing as if they are playing centre. I saw a lot of Drouin while with the Mooseheads on a line with MacKinnon and, for all intents, he was a centre. For that matter, MacKinnon was listed as a centre but IMO his style is markedly wing-like. Perhaps having a defensively responsible centre on lines with Radu and Drouin (eg Danault) could work as both these guys are deluxe playmakers. Add a trigger man to each line (Patches and Chuckie) and it might work. In addition, Drouin plays a lot as a point man on the PP.
TheMadApe <chiefape@gmail.com>: Jul 01 09:47AM -0300

Bergevin says that they each want too much term and too much money.
 
They will be trying to sign Thornton.
 
Why would he? He will only go to a potential finalist.
 
By the end of today panic mode in Montreal.
 
Source TSN Radio in Montreal.
 
TMA
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