Digest for alt.sports.hockey.nhl.mtl-canadiens@googlegroups.com - 15 updates in 2 topics

Wednesday, June 21, 2017

TheMadApe <chiefape@gmail.com>: Jun 21 03:37AM -0300

One year deal. Strong two way player. Good on face-offs and penalty
kills. Will help Vegas meet the cap minimum.
 
TMA
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jun 21 04:50AM -0700

On Wednesday, June 21, 2017 at 2:37:49 AM UTC-4, The Mad Ape wrote:
> One year deal. Strong two way player. Good on face-offs and penalty
> kills. Will help Vegas meet the cap minimum.
 
I think if they picked him it would be more because of a "perfect storm" of pro scouting considerations rather than anything to do with meeting the cap minimum. It sounds like they are taking on a few "dead" contracts already (Grabovski, Clarkson, Stoner), and they have ample big contracts available in the expansion draft to not just meet the floor, but perhaps scrape the ceiling instead.
 
So the perfect storm would essentially be that their scouts conclude that neither Hudon nor De La Rose has realistic NHL potential, *and* that they already have a surfeit of defensemen such that Emelin wouldn't be the more attractive selection, or that they have some other red flag on Emelin.
 
Because to me, those are 3 fairly obvious picks ahead of Plekanec. The two kids are just more in keeping with a plan to build for the future, and then Emelin and his hitting specialty IMHO is just a more valuable market asset overall than what Plekanec morphed into last season.
 
It would be a little too sweet for the Habs if Plekanec was selected. Although if it's for real that they're signing Radulov for $7M, the cap space becomes that much tighter, and losing either Plekanec or Emelin would definitely offer needed relief.
 
l8r,
Gerry
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jun 21 05:56AM -0700

So the other note I saw today was that maybe Brandon Davidson would be picked. That would be pretty good for the Habs IMHO. I'm not entirely sure where Davidson's reputation came from, but he looked like a fairly generic journeyman type to me after the team picked him up. I think maybe he's one of those guys who managed to string together some solid play on a disjointed Oilers team, and by managing to look half-decent amidst the chaos gained a reputation for upside that maybe wasn't entirely accurate? He's about to turn 26, and while his salary is no burden, I'm not sure I saw anything in his play that suggested he could be more than a "serviceable" #6/7 guy?
 
I frankly think Vegas would get more mileage out of taking Emelin and trading him.
 
l8r,
Gerry
Chuck <barberphoto411@gmail.com>: Jun 21 07:11AM -0700

Who I wish they would take = Emelin or Plekanec.
Who I think they will take = Davidson or Hudon
Chuck <barberphoto411@gmail.com>: Jun 21 07:19AM -0700

If they pull a choice out of Left field, that pick would be Montoya.
Jim Bauch <j.bauch@ca.rr.com>: Jun 21 12:59PM -0700

On Wednesday, June 21, 2017 at 7:19:20 AM UTC-7, Chuck wrote:
> If they pull a choice out of Left field, that pick would be Montoya.
 
That would be out of left field. Not that Montoya is significantly (if at all) "worse" than Hudon/Emelin/Davidson/Plekanec/etc., but simply because the Knights are poised to have a glut of goalies as is. See Gerry's post in the other thread -- even being conservative, there's probably at least three goalies more desirable and flippable than Montoya, including an established veteran who could be a #1 on many teams (Fleury), and a couple of young guys with potential (Mrazek, Pickard). Plus the various backup Montoya-equivalents they might choose to take from other teams.
 
I'm not sure what mileage Vegas gets out of taking Montoya. The Habs probably want Montoya more than any other team, simply because he's a known quantity and apparently considered a good fit, but even they could easily decide to go to camp with Lindgren as the backup, and wait for Vegas to waive either Montoya or one of its other surplus goalies. Given that lack of leverage, I'm not sure that MB would offer Vegas anything better than Hudon/Davidson/etc. to get him back, so why not just pick one of those guys directly if you're Vegas?
 
Jim
Chuck <barberphoto411@gmail.com>: Jun 21 01:09PM -0700

Montoya only gets picked if McPhee wants to be a prick and only pick players that would/could attract a counter offer of draft picks, to let him stay. I don't think MB would be that concerned should Vegas pick anyone else off the list
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jun 21 02:57PM -0700

It sounds like he's not really going to follow my idea of stocking up on goalies anyway. I guess they figured they wouldn't have all that much leverage in terms of dealing them afterwards, since most of the teams that would need a goalie would be the irate ones they just took those goalies from.
 
So I can't see them taking Montoya at all. Fleury as the starter, then maybe Pickard and/or Grubbauer as the young apprentice, quite possibly not more than 3 goalies selected in total... although the rumour mill has them picking up J.F.Berube from the Isles too, either as part of their trade, or as their selection... in which case one might presume he'd be ticketed to be the "experienced starter" for their farm team.
 
From the Flyers they are apparently going with Bellemare and not Neuvirth.
From the Rangers they are taking Lindberg or Fast, not Raanta.
Maybe most surprising of all, it sounds like they will take Nosek and not Mrazek from the Red Wings...
etc.
 
Montoya isn't happening. He wouldn't have value to the Knights, either on the ice or as a flippable asset, it sounds like.
 
l8r,
Gerry
Chuck <barberphoto411@gmail.com>: Jun 21 03:27PM -0700

On Wednesday, June 21, 2017 at 5:57:25 PM UTC-4, Gerry wrote:
 
> Montoya isn't happening. He wouldn't have value to the Knights, either on the ice or as a flippable asset, it sounds like.
 
> l8r,
> Gerry
 
Once you get past a team's starting goalie, their backup and maybe their number one minor league netminder, I don`t think there is much value in potentially flipped veteran goalies. A wild card might be a graduating junior, facing a logjam of depth in front of him. I think depth in net doesn`t have shelf life when then there is little sign they can push themselves higher . Just too many out there. Look at Montreal's goalie depth. You want to have Lingren have lots of playing time in Laval, leaving little playing time for a backup goalie to attract any interest. In order to give Fucale a heavy workload they parked him in the ECHL. Now you have McNevin about to join the development chart. How many goalies can a team manage below their NHL team, and be able to develop them further as well as create a potential trade path, should the goalies above them be young and under contract. I see little value of Vegas drafting more then 4 goalies. If they want more there is the Entry draft and UFA Day. I think Position players will be more flippable then a number 5 goalie on an expansion team.
Chuck <barberphoto411@gmail.com>: Jun 21 04:19PM -0700

On Wednesday, June 21, 2017 at 2:37:49 AM UTC-4, The Mad Ape wrote:
> One year deal. Strong two way player. Good on face-offs and penalty
> kills. Will help Vegas meet the cap minimum.
 
> TMA
 
Looks like goodbye Emelin, Hello Cap space :)
 
SportsNet/HockeyBuzz
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jun 21 04:42PM -0700

Guys like Montoya, sure, they have settled into backup roles. I think for the past year a lot of people have been speculating that it was more the younger guys, potential emerging starters, who would draw attention in the scenario of picking more goalies. Guys like Pickard, Grubbauder, Mrazek... young guys who might be able to supplant Fleury sooner rather than later. OR take over as #1 for some other team in need (e.g. Arizona). But it's still not a large or assured market. I would hope they still grab 3 guys anyway. (not including Berube). But it sounds more like they'll just anoint Fleury and Pickard and leave it at that, perhaps.
 
 
l8r,
Gerry
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jun 21 04:44PM -0700

On Wednesday, June 21, 2017 at 7:19:50 PM UTC-4, Chuck wrote:
 
> Looks like goodbye Emelin, Hello Cap space :)
 
Followed in about 12 hours by: good-bye cap space again. If they trade Galchenyuk for one of these fairly non-descript middle defenders like Demers or Scandella, wow, what a lot of spinning their wheels in the mud.
 
l8r,
Gerry
TheMadApe <chiefape@gmail.com>: Jun 21 09:39PM -0300

Yep. Apparently McPhee said it.
 
TMA
 
Chuck wrote:
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jun 21 11:48AM -0700

Sounds so far like the following updates:

> Anaheim - Josh Manson (D, $0.825M) [D - Vatanen]
--> they get Shea Theodore for taking on Stoner
 
> Arizona - Louis Dominigue (G, $1.05M) [D - Connauton]
> Boston - Colin Miller (D, $1M) [F - Hayes]
> Buffalo - Linus Ullmark (G,$0.750M) [D - Bogosian]
--> sounds like they are taking William Carrier?
 
> Calgary - Troy Brouwer (F, $4.5M) [D - Kulak]
> Carolina - Lee Stemniak (F, $2.5M)
> Chicago - Trevor van Riemsdyk (D, $0.825M) [F - Kruger]
--> and maybe just van Riemsdyk with no Kruger attached
 
> Colorado - Calvin Pickard (G,$1.0M) [F - Grigorenko]
> Columbus - Josh Anderson (F,$0.678M) [G - Korpisalo]
--> they have a deal, maybe get William Karlsson and also Clarkson
 
> Dallas - Dan Hamhuis (D, $3.75M) [F - Eakin]
--> sounds like Eakin
 
> Detroit - Petr Mrazek (G, $4M) [D - Ouellet]
> Edmonton - Jujhar Khaira (F, $0.675M) [F - Pakarinen]
> Florida - Jonathan Marchessault (F, $0.750M) [F - Smith]
--> suggestions that they are taking March, but with Smith too as a contract dump?
 
> Los Angeles - Brayden McNabb (D, $1.7M) [F - Lewis]
> Minnesota - Matt Dumba (D, $2.55M) [D - Scandella]
--> instead they get Erik Haula and prospect Tuch
 
> Montreal - Charles Hudon (F, $0.650M) [F - De La Rose]
--> could actually be Emelin, maybe Davidson
 
> Nashville - James Neal (F, $5M) [F - Sissons]
> New Jersey - Mike Cammalleri (F, $5M) [D - Merrill]
> NY Islanders - Brock Nelson (F, $2.5M) [F - Strome]
--> sounds like a deal to take Kulemin, plus Grabovski's contract
 
> San Jose - Mikkel Boedker (F, $4M) [D - Martin]
> St. Louis - David Perron (F, $3.75M)
> Tampa Bay - Jake Dotchin, (D, $0.617M) [D - Koekkoek]
--> and they could have a deal here to take somebody else and get Gusev's rights
 
> Vancouver - Brendan Gaunce (F, RFA) [D - Pedan]
> Washington - Phillip Grubbauer (G, $0.750M) [D - Schmidt]
> Winnipeg - Tobias Enstrom (D, $5.75M) [F - Dano]
 
So the lineup below isn't drastically affected maybe..

Marchessault ($0.75M) - Shipachyov ($4.5M) - Neal ($5M)
Perron ($3.75M) - Eakin ($3.85M) - Cammalleri ($5M)
Kulemin ($4.2M) - Haula (?RFA - $1.5M?) - Boedker ($4M)
Stempniak ($2.5M - Lindberg (?RFA - $1M?) - Brouwer ($4.5M)
Carrier ($0.7M) - Karlsson ($1M) - R.Smith ($5M)
Gaunce (?RFA $0.6M?) / Khaira ($0.675M) / Leipsic (?RFA $0.6M?)
 
+ Grabovski ($5M) & Clarkson ($5.25M) as dead contracts

Methot ($4.9M) - Theodore ($0.9M)
Emelin/Davidson - Van Riemsdyk ($0.825M)
Miller ($1M) - Enstrom ($5.75M)
McNabb ($1.7M) - Connauton ($1M)
+ Stoner as a dead contract ($3.25M)
 
... got more F with all the trades, maybe flip a couple of the extra G's to D... like Connauton instead of Dominigue, possibly even Xavier Ouellet instead of Mrazek? Still I'd think they'd take more than 2 goalies...

Fleury ($5.75M)
Mrazek ($4M)
Pickard ($1M)
Grubbauer ($0.750M)
Neuvirth ($2.5M)
 
Also some prospects already suggested in the bag, I bet they have a few more on the way too...
Tuch
Gusev
 
... and supposedly 10 draft picks acquired.
 
And then they get to flip some of the extra roster players acquired above as well to get even more picks and prospects.
 
l8r,
Gerry
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jun 21 05:02PM -0700

Before it all gets unveiled, it sounds like almost the whole roster is already known. Just remains to get the details on the trades, basically.
 
> > Anaheim - Josh Manson (D, $0.825M) [D - Vatanen]
> --> they get Shea Theodore for taking on Stoner
 
> > Arizona - Louis Dominigue (G, $1.05M) [D - Connauton]
--> one of the few still "TBD"
 
> > Buffalo - Linus Ullmark (G,$0.750M) [D - Bogosian]
> --> sounds like they are taking William Carrier?
 
> > Calgary - Troy Brouwer (F, $4.5M) [D - Kulak]
--> one of the weirder cases where they took and signed UFA Deryk Engelland. Dunno why they'd do that tbh, could have had him for nothing on July 1.
 
> > Carolina - Lee Stemniak (F, $2.5M)
--> also haven't heard anything on Carolina
 
> > Chicago - Trevor van Riemsdyk (D, $0.825M) [F - Kruger]
> --> and maybe just van Riemsdyk with no Kruger attached
 
> > Colorado - Calvin Pickard (G,$1.0M) [F - Grigorenko]
--> haven't heard, but it HAS to be Pickard
 
 
> > Dallas - Dan Hamhuis (D, $3.75M) [F - Eakin]
> --> sounds like Eakin
 
> > Detroit - Petr Mrazek (G, $4M) [D - Ouellet]
--> so they are going with Nosek
 
> > Edmonton - Jujhar Khaira (F, $0.675M) [F - Pakarinen]
--> and they take Griffin Reinhart
 
> --> could actually be Emelin, maybe Davidson
 
> > Nashville - James Neal (F, $5M) [F - Sissons]
> > New Jersey - Mike Cammalleri (F, $5M) [D - Merrill]
--> apparently Merrill
 
> > NY Islanders - Brock Nelson (F, $2.5M) [F - Strome]
> --> sounds like a deal to take Kulemin, plus Grabovski's contract
--> or J.F. Berube in the trade or as the pick?

> > NY Rangers - Oscar Lindberg (F, RFA) [G - Raanta]
--> Lindberg
 
> > Ottawa - Marc Methot (D,$4.9M) [F - Ryan/D - Claesson]
> > Philadelphia - Michal Neuvirth (G, $2.5M) [F - Raffl]
--> Bellemare
 
> > Pittsburgh - Marc-Andre Fleury (G, $5.75M)
> > San Jose - Mikkel Boedker (F, $4M) [D - Martin]
--> still dunno but sounds like Schlemko
 
> > St. Louis - David Perron (F, $3.75M)
> > Tampa Bay - Jake Dotchin, (D, $0.617M) [D - Koekkoek]
> --> and they could have a deal here to take somebody else and get Gusev's rights
--> that somebody seems to be another albatross contract in Garrison
 
> > Toronto - Brendan Leipsic (F, RFA) [D - Marchenko]
> > Vancouver - Brendan Gaunce (F, RFA) [D - Pedan]
--> another albatross trade for Luca Sbisa
 
--> took Nate Schmidt, very reasonable
 
--> Jets make a trade to keep Enstrom and likely Dano goes instead

More D and even more bad contracts than I expected.
 
l8r,
Gerry
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