Digest for alt.sports.hockey.nhl.mtl-canadiens@googlegroups.com - 13 updates in 2 topics

Sunday, June 18, 2017

John Corbin <johnhabsfan@gmail.com>: Jun 18 05:23AM -0700

Now that vegas is comming fir our players, who sre we protecting?
Mike <mike@gmail.com>: Jun 18 10:01AM -0300

On 06/18/2017 09:23 AM, John Corbin wrote:
> Now that vegas is comming fir our players, who sre we protecting?
 
We'll know for certain at 10AM Eastern but here's my guess
 
Pacioretty, Galchenyuk, Drouin, Hudon, Gallagher, Byron, Danault, Petry,
Weber, Benn, Price.
 
I'd take a chance that they don't take Shaw and if they do then that's
$4M freed up. Win-win
Mike <mike@gmail.com>: Jun 18 12:22PM -0300

On 06/18/2017 09:23 AM, John Corbin wrote:
> Now that vegas is comming fir our players, who sre we protecting?
 
From NHL.com
 
Montreal Canadiens
 
Protected players
Paul Byron (F)
Phillip Danault (F)
Jonathan Drouin (F)
Alex Galchenyuk (F)
Brendan Gallagher (F)
Max Pacioretty (F)
Andrew Shaw (F)
Jordie Benn (D)
Jeff Petry (D)
Shea Weber (D)
Carey Price (G)
 
Available players
Daniel Carr (F)
Connor Crisp (F)
Jacob De La Rose (F)
Bobby Farnham (F)
Brian Flynn (F)
Max Friberg (F)
Charles Hudon (F)
Dwight King (F)
Stefan Matteau (F)
Torrey Mitchell (F)
Joonas Nattinen (F)
Steve Ott (F)
Tomas Plekanec (F)
Alexander Radulov (F)
Chris Terry (F)
Brandon Davidson (D)
Alexei Emelin (D)
Keegan Lowe (D)
Andrei Markov (D)
Nikita Nesterov (D)
Zach Redmond (D)
Dalton Thrower (D)
Al Montoya (G)
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jun 18 08:43AM -0700

No surprises. If I was running Vegas I'd obviously call Radulov first. If that's a dead end, it's either Hudon or De La Rose... get my pro scouts' inputs, take a look at the rest of the mix the team has, and probably take Hudon.
 
I mean, if I was picking the team I'm pretty sure I'd use all my extra picks on goalies. So I'd end up with 14F/9D/7G... in that scenario, with only 14 forwards, I wouldn't be too scared about nabbing Hudon or DLR and then being forced to waive them in the fall. There might be some picks made among the 14F that are purely assets for trading (e.g. James Neal). So picking Hudon or DLR shouldn't be considered risky, they would be pencilled into the opening night lineup.
 
I could imagine Emelin *maybe* having enough asset value to pick and trade. But I'd want to be assured of that trade beforehand. It's far far more likely I'd just go with Hudon for maximum upside. Plus now he has a nice 2-year contract already.
 
I don't see how the Habs made the Beaulieu trade. If for some dumb reason you think Benn is a better asset, ok, you expose Beaulieu, and Las Vegas takes him, you keep Hudon. Hudon is worth more than a 3rd to me. Flip side, if Vegas doesn't take Beaulieu and just takes Hudon anyway, and you absolutely hate Beaulieu and have to trade him anyway... ooookay, but his trade value has to be a lot higher after the expansion draft than before. Teams will suddenly have some openings on D, there is a built-in market!
 
They should have an expansion draft every year, though, it's pretty fun! :)
 
l8r,
Gerry
Chuck <barberphoto411@gmail.com>: Jun 18 09:08AM -0700

I think the lists are more a PR gimic. I think Vegas has indicated intent to each team prior to the publication of these lists in order to create trade talk. Vegas supposedly has picked up a few 1st round picks, so I would not be surprised should they be used to pry away players off protected list, and perhaps form package deals along with drafted players to pry loose protected players as well. I would not go overboard on goalie depth, to use up picks. Draft two for the roster, maybe 2 for minors, for anymore I'd look to the Entry draft and or UFA signings to save money on entry level contracts or players for any deeper minor league depth
Nyssa <Nyssa@flawlesslogic.com>: Jun 18 12:21PM -0400

Chuck wrote:
 
> anymore I'd look to the Entry draft and or UFA signings to
> save money on entry level contracts or players for any
> deeper minor league depth
 
I agree about the PR gimmick. Originally the league was NOT
going to release the lists supposedly so the little snowflakes
left off the protected lists would not have their feelings
hurt.
 
There have been a LOT of wheeling and dealings going on behind
the scenes just based on the rumors and chatter.
 
Still, I prefer knowing to not knowing the lists. I really
dislike merging the announced roster picks to filler for
the awards though. They should be separate, period. One
has nothing to do with the other and combining them diminishes
them both.
 
I'd rather not have to see or hear Bettman at all when you
come down to it, and you just know he's going to be in the
spotlight for the whole shebang one way or another.
 
Nyssa, who dislikes uppity New Yawk lawyers with NBA backgrounds
Chuck <barberphoto411@gmail.com>: Jun 18 09:29AM -0700

The one flaw in Vegas entry into the NHL will be a starting roster with no RFA/players who do not have to be waived to be sent down. After the entry draft they will have a surplus of players who have to clear waivers. I think Vegas will target for trade players to add some balance. I doubt the NHLPA would give them freebee demotions of waiver eligible expansion draft selections
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jun 18 01:33PM -0700

So I went through and did a quick Vegas draft... here's the player I took for each team, along in many cases with an alternate option in square brackets. It feels to me like it could be a reasonably competitive team, with a cap hit around $66M.
 
I tended to err on the side of taking some established guys, fully planning to trade them as the season progresses for futures. I also took the full slate of goalies... that is a risky proposition, of course, since I would absolutely have to find homes for them in trades during the summer. I'm not sure about Dominigue and Neuvirth in particular in this list. In hindisght I probably swap those two out for their alternates, and strongly consider putting Raanta into the mix. Anyway, I'm going to carry 3 goalies when camp breaks, guessing Fleury, Mrazek, and Pickard. If somebody has a goalie injury, just come here, to Goalies'R'Us. Guys like Ullmark and Korpisalo who can be assigned to the minors without waivers are strong candidates. Of course, there is the risk of just losing somebody on waivers if I take too many others. I would probably be inclined to take that chance in general. Although it would be for sure possible to take my top-3, and then a couple waiver-exempt ones to send to the minors, and then alternates for some of the others.
 
Of course, Anaheim and Columbus are at least two NHL teams who have deals already in place with Vegas, so the real Knights can't actually get Manson and Anderson who I have down. But they have great alternate options too, so it's not really a big difference to what the end result will look like. They presumably also have Kruger from the Hawks.
 
Anaheim - Josh Manson (D, $0.825M) [D - Vatanen]
Arizona - Louis Dominigue (G, $1.05M) [D - Connauton]
Boston - Colin Miller (D, $1M) [F - Hayes]
Buffalo - Linus Ullmark (G,$0.750M) [D - Bogosian]
Calgary - Troy Brouwer (F, $4.5M) [D - Kulak]
Carolina - Lee Stemniak (F, $2.5M)
Chicago - Trevor van Riemsdyk (D, $0.825M) [F - Kruger]
Colorado - Calvin Pickard (G,$1.0M) [F - Grigorenko]
Columbus - Josh Anderson (F,$0.678M) [G - Korpisalo]
Dallas - Dan Hamhuis (D, $3.75M) [F - Eakin]
Detroit - Petr Mrazek (G, $4M) [D - Ouellet]
Edmonton - Jujhar Khaira (F, $0.675M) [F - Pakarinen]
Florida - Jonathan Marchessault (F, $0.750M) [F - Smith]
Los Angeles - Brayden McNabb (D, $1.7M) [F - Lewis]
Minnesota - Matt Dumba (D, $2.55M) [D - Scandella]
Montreal - Charles Hudon (F, $0.650M) [F - De La Rose]
Nashville - James Neal (F, $5M) [F - Sissons]
New Jersey - Mike Cammalleri (F, $5M) [D - Merrill]
NY Islanders - Brock Nelson (F, $2.5M) [F - Strome]
NY Rangers - Oscar Lindberg (F, RFA) [G - Raanta]
Ottawa - Marc Methot (D,$4.9M) [F - Ryan/D - Claesson]
Philadelphia - Michal Neuvirth (G, $2.5M) [F - Raffl]
Pittsburgh - Marc-Andre Fleury (G, $5.75M)
San Jose - Mikkel Boedker (F, $4M) [D - Martin]
St. Louis - David Perron (F, $3.75M)
Tampa Bay - Jake Dotchin, (D, $0.617M) [D - Koekkoek]
Toronto - Brendan Leipsic (F, RFA) [D - Marchenko]
Vancouver - Brendan Gaunce (F, RFA) [D - Pedan]
Washington - Phillip Grubbauer (G, $0.750M) [D - Schmidt]
Winnipeg - Tobias Enstrom (D, $5.75M) [F - Dano]
 
Marchessault ($0.75M) - Shipachyov ($4.5M) - Neal ($5M)
Perron ($3.75M) - Nelson ($2.5M) - Cammalleri ($5M)
Anderson ($0.678M) - Lindberg (?RFA - $1M?) - Boedker ($4M)
Stempniak ($2.5M - Gaunce (?RFA $0.6M?) - Brouwer ($4.5M)
Hudon ($0.65M) / Khaira ($0.675M) / Leipsic (?RFA $0.6M?)
 
Methot ($4.9M) - Dumba ($2.55M)
Manson ($0.825M) - Van Riemsdyk ($0.825M)
Hamhuis ($3.75M) - Enstrom ($5.75M)
Miller ($1M) - Dotchin ($0.617M)
McNabb ($1.7M)
 
Fleury ($5.75M)
Mrazek ($4M)
Pickard ($1M)
Grubbauer ($0.750M)
Ullmark ($0.75M)
Neuvirth ($2.5M)
Dominigue ($1.05M)
 
Approximate top-23 cap hit: $66M
 
l8r,
Gerry
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jun 18 02:15PM -0700

I should probably also append to my draft... it totally ignores taking any UFAs. If Vegas could nab any top UFAs instead, well, a team that could be competitive out of the gate only gets better.
 
l8r,
Gerry
Chuck <barberphoto411@gmail.com>: Jun 18 03:10PM -0700

I think the only restriction Vegas has is they cannot buy any them out before a set date. So they should be able to draft and package them up for trades. Vegas could listen to requests of rival GMs they'd be interested in trading for a player(s) off an opponent's unprotected list if Vegas would draft and trade them. So Vegas could entertain offers for players on unprotected lists then make their draft selection. They could draft Yakupov if they knew a team wanted him, if they could sweeten the deal with another player drafted from another team. Vegas may want to stock up on even more future entry draft picks then players who, at best might enable them to surprise and risk the team earning in next years entry a pick outside the top 10
Mike <mike@gmail.com>: Jun 18 09:47AM -0300

On 06/17/2017 07:36 PM, Jim Bauch wrote:
 
> It probably does in Bergevin's mind, because he's ruled out using Galchenyuk at center, and therefore Plekanec is being counted on as a 1st or 2nd line center. In which case, yeah, now you're looking at, who, Torrey Mitchell as 2nd center? Andrew Shaw?
 
> Realistically, I'm not sure that Plekanec has much offensive spark left in him, and isn't really appropriate in the 2nd center role anyway. I'd give Galchenyuk a real shot at the job. The drop off at 3rd line center between Pleks and Mitchell is modest, and the 4th line job can go to De la Rose, or McCarron, or whichever bargain basement acquisition MB picks up next.
 
> Jim
 
My use of Plekanec would be as a 3rd line centre, shutdown, PK guy and
he'd be very useful in that role - very useful. To buy him out,
encourage LV to take him creates another hole at the centre position and
they cannot afford that right now.
 
On Beaulieu - I don't understand this move to be honest. The theory is
"we're gonna lose him for nothing, might as well get something for him".
So instead of losing him for nothing, you trade him at the worst
possible time, get next to nothing for him and now you have to expose
ANOTHER player instead. So they're going to lose a Hudon for example AND
Beaulieu for a 3rd round pick. Its a bad move if it was done solely for
the purpose of not losing him for free.
Nyssa <Nyssa@flawlesslogic.com>: Jun 18 09:22AM -0400

Mike wrote:
 
> example AND Beaulieu for a 3rd round pick. Its a bad move
> if it was done solely for the purpose of not losing him
> for free.
 
It almost seems like MB doesn't understand the rules of the
expansion draft very well.
 
Lose TWO players for one third-round pick since we a) trade
one for that pick and still will b) *have* to lose another
player to the draft for nothing. So we're down two roster
players no matter what with one prospect coming that may
or may not work out depending on their scouting and picking
skills.
 
If he had left things alone we would have lost ONE player
for nothing, but have left the others safe since you can't
lose two to the draft.
 
Either no one read him the rules sloooowly or he was very
bad a math as a kid and never caught up.
 
Nyssa, who is thinking it's most probably "all of the above"
Chuck <barberphoto411@gmail.com>: Jun 18 07:14AM -0700

All is unknown because the NHL decided to keep Vegas transactions secret until NHL awards night. Good chance Montreal has made deals with Las Vegas and Vegas didn't want Beaulieu. Montreal didn't want him either nor did anyone else as indicated they could only get a 3rd for him. MB's plan has already assigned an offseason signing to take his position, also deciding they had no interest to park him in the press box and gamble they could get more for him later
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