Digest for rec.sport.tennis@googlegroups.com - 25 updates in 5 topics

Sunday, August 13, 2017

*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: Aug 13 04:40PM +0200

>> fanboi excuse in the history of fanboikind.
 
> It doesn't matter. Federer is still not at his peak currently and he wasn't at his peak at age 29+ when Djokovic started to beat him at slams which is what we are talking about here.
 
> It's not Fed's problem if the other players on tour aren't good enough or aren't capable of stepping up and stopping him just like players weren't capable of doing so when Djokovic was winning slams from 2014-2016. It's been a weak field since 2014 so let's see if kids like Zverev, Shap, etc. can do something about it in the near future.
 
 
Again same nonsense from you. First of all Djokovic started
racking up titles and ridiculous winnings in 2015.

 
2014 wasn't that special for him, success wise.
 
 
And what makes 2014 "weak"?
 
Federer returned to the mix after being totally off in 2013. So it
can be only stronger field with him there in Wimbledon and YEC
finals. Nadal also made 2 slam finals that year.

Also Wawrinka and Cilic, Nishikori emerged as contenders. That's
certainly an improvement over Berdych or Ferrer being those
reaching later rounds.
 
Off all the guys only Murray dropped off a bit in 2014, everyone
else were there with some new guys so very strong field.

 
 
 
 
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Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: Aug 13 07:45AM -0700

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 10:35:04 AM UTC-4, Pelle Svanslös wrote:
 
> Nice handwave. If he wins slams at 39, he doesn't have any age excuses
> in 29+, the new 19+. That much should be clear.
 
> He lost to Djok because Djok was better.
 
Djokovic was better from 2010-2016 but Djokovic was at his very peak during that time and Roger was past his peak when Djokovic started to beat Federer at slams. They are now BOTH past their peaks so let's see what Djokovic can do now.
 
The fact that Federer is winning slams at age 35/36 doesn't mean he's peak. It means that his talent and tennis style are still good enough to get the job done and no younger players are stepping up yet, but they will eventually.
 
Let's see if Djokovic(who will be past his peak himself) can still beat these youngsters when he comes back the way Roger can. Djokovic hasn't done very well against Kyrgios and Zverev the past year and a half has he? It's not as easy when you are 29+.
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: Aug 13 07:47AM -0700

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 10:03:48 AM UTC-4, Carey wrote:
 
> > It's not Fed's problem if the other players on tour aren't good enough or aren't capable of stepping up and stopping him just like players weren't capable of doing so when Djokovic was winning slams from 2014-2016. It's been a weak field since 2014 so let's see if kids like Zverev, Shap, etc. can do something about it in the near future.
 
> That Zverev BH is fearsome, and his whole game is very solid. I expect a tough
> match, not like his last beatdown by Fed at all.
 
Yes, Zverev is improving for sure. Let's see if he has enough to knock Fed out. He certainly had enough to knock out the 29+ year old Djokoivc recently! *wink*
"Pelle Svanslös" <pelle@svans.com>: Aug 13 05:55PM +0300

On 13.8.2017 17:45, Court_1 wrote:
 
> The fact that Federer is winning slams at age 35/36 doesn't mean he's
> peak.
 
It means he's been good enuff to win slams all the time. That he now
actually does, is because the cats are away.
 
The age excuses are dead ducks.
 
--
"Donald Trump is the weak man's vision of a strong man."
-- Charles Cooke
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: Aug 13 08:05AM -0700

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 10:55:33 AM UTC-4, Pelle Svanslös wrote:
 
> It means he's been good enuff to win slams all the time. That he now
> actually does, is because the cats are away.
 
> The age excuses are dead ducks.
 
But Federer has been past his peak/prime for years and that's what we are talking about! It was a big ask for post peak/prime Federer to beat a peakity peak Djokovic in best of five but Djokovic is now past peak himself so let's see what "Tiger" can do now shall we? You think Tiger is going to come back and win multiple slams now? I don't think so.
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: Aug 13 08:07AM -0700

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 10:55:33 AM UTC-4, Pelle Svanslös wrote:
 
> That he now
> actually does, is because the cats are away.
 
What cats are those? Peak Djokovic you mean? He's gone for good. Murray? He was never a threat for Federer at the slams. As for Nadal, we've seen what Federer has done to him lately.
RaspingDrive <raspingdrive@gmail.com>: Aug 13 08:18AM -0700

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 10:55:33 AM UTC-4, Pelle Svanslös wrote:
 
> It means he's been good enuff to win slams all the time. That he now
> actually does, is because the cats are away.
 
> The age excuses are dead ducks.
 
Age is a factor after 30. The slam winnings decline with age. Djok before 30 won 12. Let's see how many he can manage after 30.
"Pelle Svanslös" <pelle@svans.com>: Aug 13 06:20PM +0300

On 13.8.2017 18:05, Court_1 wrote:
>> actually does, is because the cats are away.
 
>> The age excuses are dead ducks.
 
> But Federer has been past his peak/prime for years and that's what we are talking about!
 
Nope. It's not a question of form. The question was "If he had to always
play peakest Djokovic, would he have won any?".
 
His chances would have been significantly less than they are in Clown
Era redux.
 
--
"Donald Trump is the weak man's vision of a strong man."
-- Charles Cooke
"Pelle Svanslös" <pelle@svans.com>: Aug 13 06:22PM +0300

On 13.8.2017 18:18, RaspingDrive wrote:
>> actually does, is because the cats are away.
 
>> The age excuses are dead ducks.
 
> Age is a factor after 30. The slam winnings decline with age. Djok before 30 won 12. Let's see how many he can manage after 30.
 
Let's see if he plays after 30 first.
 
--
"Donald Trump is the weak man's vision of a strong man."
-- Charles Cooke
RaspingDrive <raspingdrive@gmail.com>: Aug 13 08:24AM -0700

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 11:07:46 AM UTC-4, Court_1 wrote:
 
> > That he now
> > actually does, is because the cats are away.
 
> What cats are those? Peak Djokovic you mean? He's gone for good. Murray? He was never a threat for Federer at the slams. As for Nadal, we've seen what Federer has done to him lately.
 
Peak Djok, the supposed cat, lost to Nadal at USO 2013, Murray at USO 2012 and W 2013, Stan at AO 2014, FO 2015 and USO 2016. Add to these the regular beatings by Nadal on clay until 2014 FO. Djok did beat Fed, only that Fed was dilapidated. In addition, the giant Djok at his peak lost to Istomin!
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: Aug 13 08:27AM -0700

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 11:20:57 AM UTC-4, Pelle Svanslös wrote:
 
> Nope. It's not a question of form. The question was "If he had to always
> play peakest Djokovic, would he have won any?".
 
If Fed was peak himself playing against peak Djokovic? Of course he would have won slams! He was taking peak Djokovic to the edge at W 2014 and of course we know that 30+ year old Fed beat peakity peak Djokovic at W 2012 and the FO 2011. Federer is greater. There is no doubt about it.
 

> His chances would have been significantly less than they are in Clown
> Era redux.
 
You have the nerve to talk about clown eras when you look at the field Djokovic had to face from 2014-2016? Please.
 
As I said, peak Djokovic is now a thing of the past. Let's see how many slams past peak Djokovic can contend for now that he is 30. Does he have the will or physical game to do so? He certainly had trouble vs Kyrgios and Zverev in the past year and they'll only get better.
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: Aug 13 08:28AM -0700

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 11:24:31 AM UTC-4, RaspingDrive wrote:
> > > actually does, is because the cats are away.
 
> > What cats are those? Peak Djokovic you mean? He's gone for good. Murray? He was never a threat for Federer at the slams. As for Nadal, we've seen what Federer has done to him lately.
 
> Peak Djok, the supposed cat, lost to Nadal at USO 2013, Murray at USO 2012 and W 2013, Stan at AO 2014, FO 2015 and USO 2016. Add to these the regular beatings by Nadal on clay until 2014 FO. Djok did beat Fed, only that Fed was dilapidated. In addition, the giant Djok at his peak lost to Istomin!
 
+1.
"Pelle Svanslös" <pelle@svans.com>: Aug 13 06:28PM +0300

On 13.8.2017 18:24, RaspingDrive wrote:
> 2012 and W 2013, Stan at AO 2014, FO 2015 and USO 2016. Add to these
> the regular beatings by Nadal on clay until 2014 FO. Djok did beat
> Fed, only that Fed was dilapidated.
 
Dilapitated? Lol.
 
You forgot to mention that Djok played with 9 toenails against 10 in the
last USO final for instance.
 
--
"Donald Trump is the weak man's vision of a strong man."
-- Charles Cooke
"Pelle Svanslös" <pelle@svans.com>: Aug 13 05:40PM +0300

On 13.8.2017 17:31, stephenJ wrote:
>> quiet, liberal-leaning university city..."
 
> That, and none of your other blather, change the fact that it wasn't.
> Good Lord. :(
 
I can't be responsible for what implications hit the target with you or
not. I've voiced reservations about that before.
 
> And about the violence in Virginia more generally, I already commented
> on that in a reply to TT, so read your own thread for crissakes.
 
I read it up and until to "free speech", and decided to discard it as
your usual dishonest rambling. Lumping the demonstrations, and hate
speech in general for that matter, under free speech is disingenuous.
 
But that's what I've come to expect from you, so not a big deal.
 
--
"Donald Trump is the weak man's vision of a strong man."
-- Charles Cooke
calimero377@gmx.de: Aug 13 07:49AM -0700

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 4:02:01 PM UTC+2, StephenJ wrote:
 
> Trump was correct for denouncing violence from many/any sides, he should
> be applauded for doing so.
 
Spot-on analysis.
The left and their media minions really use EVERYTHING to denounce the orange clown!
 
 
Max
*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: Aug 13 04:59PM +0200


> Spot-on analysis.
> The left and their media minions really use EVERYTHING to denounce the orange clown!
 
 
Why do you pretend you agree with him, when in Germany you're
oppressing and arresting Chinese tourists who fool around with
Hitler salutes in Berlin?
 
You'd probably have show like Seinfeld banned there as well.
 
Understanding democracy or free speech is beyond you. So don't
pretend you're on the same side as Stephen here.

 
 
Not only you, as Germany, are engaging in totalitarianism again,
you're picking wrong people to attack again, just like you picked
wrong enemy in 1941.
 
You're making special toilets for jihadists in your country and
remove toilet paper to accommodate them, but then go on arresting
citizens of future world major superpower for no
reason?
 
Extremely dumb.
 
 
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calimero377@gmx.de: Aug 13 08:27AM -0700

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 4:59:58 PM UTC+2, *skriptis wrote:
 
> Why do you pretend you agree with him, when in Germany you're
> oppressing and arresting Chinese tourists who fool around with
> Hitler salutes in Berlin?
 
We have Neonazis like you even here in Germany. We don't want them to provoke jews here with the salute of an organisation which was responsible for the murder of 6 million jews.
 
So the Nazi salute and the Nazi swastika are verboten here. Deal with it, Russki.
 
> You'd probably have show like Seinfeld banned there as well.
 
> Understanding democracy or free speech is beyond you. So don't
> pretend you're on the same side as Stephen here.
 
People like you promoting free speech is just hilarious.
> you're picking wrong people to attack again, just like you picked
> wrong enemy in 1941.
 
> You're making special toilets for jihadists in your country
 
We also have enough toilets for Russian nazis like you. So come, shit into your nazi toilet and try your nazi salute here. Have fun!
 
> remove toilet paper to accommodate them, but then go on arresting
> citizens of future world major superpower for no
> reason?
 
There was a reason. Even citizens of future world major superpowers will have to learn that.
 
> Extremely dumb.
 
People like you have a hard time in today's Germany.
 
 
Max
RaspingDrive <raspingdrive@gmail.com>: Aug 13 08:01AM -0700

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 10:04:52 AM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote:
> good chance to win this US Open
 
> Don't you want to attach a percentage chance to your prediction?! :)
 
> I really enjoy your numbers :)
 
No need to discount a 15-slam champ's chances at USO. This year he already reached the final of a HC slam. It is not inconceivable that he would repeat that feat and, with luck and more confidence, seal it in the final. AO 2017 was a close contest, mind you.
RaspingDrive <raspingdrive@gmail.com>: Aug 13 08:06AM -0700

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 10:29:33 AM UTC-4, *skriptis wrote:
 
> I'm more referring to the issue of defending titles.
 
> I think it's not such a big deal that could disqualify a guy with
> Edberg type off clay credentials. Nadal has 5 slams there.
 
And 6 more finals on non-clay surfaces. Edberg had 4. Becker had 4 as well.
 
> just once, even though he won it 5 times. Nobody talks about that
> as it's irrelevant.
 
> Otoh, Courier defended both his AO and FO titles so what?
 
Note: Connors has 8 and Courier has 4. Slam count, dear :)
John Liang <jliang70@gmail.com>: Aug 13 08:25AM -0700

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 9:40:44 PM UTC+10, Whisper wrote:
 
> > And much of his dominance over Federer and Djoker in slam were built on clay, he won 5 of his slam on hc/gc inferior to his main rivals who had 18 and 11 slam titles on HC/GC, Nadal is clearly not the best HC/GC player in this era and Federer/Djoker are better than him on those two surfaces.
 
> But he most likely is the best 'at peak' player of this era. Certainly
> I see his best as better than Fed or Djoker, on every surface.
 
No, he is not the best on HC and GC in this era and far from it when it was time to face up the pressure defending his slam titles on those surface, you can expect him to shit his pants and not able to handle the pressure, he did not in his two Wimbledon defence, did not at AO and again at USO. When you are the best at best you need to show some resolve in defending the title. He is the best in not defending his non clay court titles and with expectation to shit his own pants when it was his part to defend a slam not played on clay.
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: Aug 13 07:38AM -0700

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 10:26:16 AM UTC-4, Tuan wrote:


> Once Zverev ceases to be a novelty he'll be exceedingly boring I'm afraid. Look at how many times he comes to the net in a match.
 
I find Zverev's tennis kind of boring and robotic now but at least he goes for it and doesn't want to grind away and he seems to have big goals for himself. Shapovalov also is hugely motivated to win slams. He said this a few years ago:
 
"My dream has always been to become a top tennis player and winning Grand Slams. So, going to college is not my priority. I still think it is important to have a backup plan which is why I am working hard to finish high school. However, I will do everything I can to try to achieve my dream so I am not really thinking about going to college."
 
https://www.merchantoftennis.com/blogs/canadian-tennis/41215553-q-a-with-denis-shapovalov
 
That's what you need from these young players, i.e. they have to eat, drink and think tennis 24/7 and have to think BIG. Most of them are simply content to earn a few million and be at the top of the game but the ones who become GREAT become obsessed with the idea of winning slams and are comfortable with the attention and having the spotlight on them. Both Zverev and Shapovalov seem to be that way. We'll see how it works out for them.
Carey <carey_1959@yahoo.com>: Aug 13 08:19AM -0700

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 7:38:43 AM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
 
> "My dream has always been to become a top tennis player and winning Grand Slams. So, going to college is not my priority. I still think it is important to have a backup plan which is why I am working hard to finish high school. However, I will do everything I can to try to achieve my dream so I am not really thinking about going to college."
 
> https://www.merchantoftennis.com/blogs/canadian-tennis/41215553-q-a-with-denis-shapovalov
 
> That's what you need from these young players, i.e. they have to eat, drink and think tennis 24/7 and have to think BIG. Most of them are simply content to earn a few million and be at the top of the game but the ones who become GREAT become obsessed with the idea of winning slams and are comfortable with the attention and having the spotlight on them. Both Zverev and Shapovalov seem to be that way. We'll see how it works out for them.
 
 
Shap sounds like a nice kid with a solid team behind him. It was nice to see
that photo of him with Fed! A prediction: Shap starts serving *very* big, soon.
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: Aug 13 08:21AM -0700

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 11:19:01 AM UTC-4, Carey wrote:
 
> Shap sounds like a nice kid with a solid team behind him. It was nice to see
> that photo of him with Fed! A prediction: Shap starts serving *very* big, soon.
 
+1. I'm all in on team Shap.
TT <ascii@dprk.kp>: Aug 13 06:09PM +0300

Court_1 kirjoitti 13.8.2017 klo 17:23:
 
>> Shapovalov did play and serve great though, which made it a matter of
>> few points... is he Russian born / of Russian heritage?
 
> Shap's parents were both born in what was formerly the Soviet Union. They emigrated to Tel Aviv and that's where Denis was born and then the family moved to Canada before Dennis was a year old.
 
Ok, a Russian Jew then.
Guypers <gapp111@gmail.com>: Aug 13 08:11AM -0700

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 11:09:30 AM UTC-4, TT wrote:
> >> few points... is he Russian born / of Russian heritage?
 
> > Shap's parents were both born in what was formerly the Soviet Union. They emigrated to Tel Aviv and that's where Denis was born and then the family moved to Canada before Dennis was a year old.
 
> Ok, a Russian Jew then.
 
His mother is!
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