Digest for rec.sport.tennis@googlegroups.com - 25 updates in 12 topics

Saturday, August 12, 2017

Manco <musefan2009@gmail.com>: Aug 12 11:44AM -0700

guys, let's not pretend Trump is responsible for this mess. Bill Clinton had a chance to deal with North Korea in 1994 and let Jimmy Fucking Carter undermine our foreign policy. Then you had 16 years of Bush & Obama doing jack shit. Suddenly Trump is the one you are going to blame for this crisis that 23 years of previous administrations did nothing? Was Winston Churchill to blame for Hitler in 1940?
calimero377@gmx.de: Aug 12 11:51AM -0700

On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 8:44:43 PM UTC+2, Manco wrote:
> guys, let's not pretend Trump is responsible for this mess. Bill Clinton had a chance to deal with North Korea in 1994 and let Jimmy Fucking Carter undermine our foreign policy. Then you had 16 years of Bush & Obama doing jack shit. Suddenly Trump is the one you are going to blame for this crisis that 23 years of previous administrations did nothing? Was Winston Churchill to blame for Hitler in 1940?
 
 
No one blames the orange clown for this.
 
 
Max
Brian W Lawrence <brian_w_lawrence@msn.com>: Aug 12 06:38PM +0100

On 12/08/2017 17:41, *skriptis wrote:
 
> But Castro "wanted" soviet missiles in Cuba as well. Also, US did
> try to invade him, something soviet union didn't do at the time
> in Turkey's case.
 
The US DID NOT try to invade Cuba, the 'invasion' was by a group of
~1,334 Cuban exiles - who were living in the US at the time. They were
sponsored by the CIA of course, but the CIA, at the time, had many
schemes to assassinate Fidel. So no US military personnel were directly
involved in the so-called invasion.
 
> So what's next, major superpowers "fulfilling" all sorts of wishes
> of their lackeys and vassals, or conducting responsible and sane
> policy?
 
What's next? Khruschev withdrew the missiles, JFK was assassinated,
Khruschev was replaced, etc., etc., etc.
 
1961 was 56 years ago, what happened then has little relevance to
today's situation.
 
 
 
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*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: Aug 12 08:50PM +0200

> sponsored by the CIA of course, but the CIA, at the time, had many
> schemes to assassinate Fidel. So no US military personnel were directly
> involved in the so-called invasion.
 
 
Wow, big difference.
 
 
 
 
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PeteWasLucky <waleed.khedr@gmail.com>: Aug 12 10:02AM -0700

Zverev wins the title
Manuel aka Xax <xamigax@gmail.com>: Aug 12 11:39AM -0700

Le samedi 12 août 2017 17:20:17 UTC+2, Whisper a écrit :
 
> ---
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Don't tell me you consider more Thiem SF @FO than Kyrgios 2xQF @W &AO ?
Manco <musefan2009@gmail.com>: Aug 12 11:45AM -0700

More relevant. Those 2 QF happened years ago. Thiem is peaking right now.
"Pelle Svanslös" <pelle@svans.los>: Aug 12 09:32PM +0300

I didn't get his endorsement when I ran for governor — but the severely
troubled man I met has only gotten worse.
 
In 1994, I visited the home of Donald Trump. He was a Democrat then, of
sorts, and I was the party's nominee for governor of Connecticut. He'd
taken an interest in our state owing to his keen desire to lodge a
casino in Bridgeport, an idea I found economically and morally dubious.
I had scant hope of enlisting him, but made the trip anyway, thinking
that if I convinced him I might win, he'd be less apt to bankroll my
opponent.
 
I arrived at Trump Tower in early evening, accompanied by my finance
chair and an old friend and colleague. Stepping off the elevator into
his apartment, we were met by a display of sterile, vulgar ostentation:
all gold, silver, brass, marble; nothing soft, welcoming or warm. Trump
soon appeared and we began to converse, but not really. In campaigns, we
candidates do most of the talking; because we like to, and because
people ask us lots of questions. Not this time. Not by a long shot.
 
Trump talked very rapidly and virtually nonstop for nearly an hour; not
of my campaign or even of politics, but only of himself, and almost
always in the third person. He'd given himself a nickname: "the
Trumpster," as in "everybody wants to know what the Trumpster's gonna
do," a claim he made more than once.
 
He mostly told stories. Some were about his business deals; others about
trips he'd taken or things he owned. All were unrelated to the alleged
point of our meeting, and to one another. That he seldom even attempted
segues made each tale seem more disconnected from reality than the last.
It was funny at first, then pathetic, and finally deeply unsettling.
 
On the drive home, we all burst out laughing, then grew quiet. What the
hell just happened? My first theory, that Trump was high on cocaine,
didn't feel quite right, but he was clearly emotionally impaired: in
constant need of approbation; lacking impulse control, self-awareness or
awareness of others. We'd heard tales of his monumental vanity, but were
still shocked by the sad spectacle of him.
 
That visit colored all my later impressions of Trump. Over time, his
mental health seemed to decline. He threw more and bigger public
tantrums; lied more often and less artfully. The media, also in decline
and knowing a ratings magnet when it saw one, turned a blind eye.
Sensing impunity, Trump revived the racist 'birther' lie. In 2011, he
told the "Today" show's Meredith Vieira he had unearthed some dark secrets:
 
Vieira: You have people now down there searching, I mean in Hawaii?
 
Trump: Absolutely. And they cannot believe what they're finding
 
As Trump recycled old lies, Vieira had a queasy look but no apparent
knowledge of the facts. Of course, there weren't any. Trump had no proof
of Obama being born in Kenya. (Since there is none.) It's highly
doubtful he had any researchers in Hawaii. (It was only after Vieira
asked him that he claimed he did.) Later, when Trump's story crumbled,
he followed a rule taught by his mentor, Roy Cohn, infamous architect of
McCarthyism: Admit nothing. To Trump, a lie is worth a thousand pictures.
 
Like the language of politics, the language of psychology is imprecise;
the term "sociopath" is as hard to nail down as "liberal" or
"conservative." What separates a serial liar from a pathological liar?
 
The diagnosis we associate with Trump is "narcissistic personality
disorder". ... No president ever seemed so impaired or disordered, but
we needn't compare him only to other rotten presidents. Trump is the
Chuck Yeager of lying, a shatterer of records thought untouchable. That
he is frozen in pathological, crotch-grabbing adolescence is well
documented; that his judgment is often deranged by rage is self-evident.
 
Trump embodies that old therapists' saw "perception is projection." You
can use this handy tool to locate the truth, exactly opposite from
whatever he just said. He has a weight management problem, so women are
"fat pigs." He can't stop fibbing, so his primary opponent becomes
"Lyin' Ted Cruz." His career is rife with fraud so the former secretary
of state becomes "Crooked Hillary." He is terrified of ridicule, so
Barack Obama is a "laughingstock." When he says America's a wasteland
but he'll make it great again, we know his secret fear.
 
It's likely that Trump's arrested development also got him white
working-class votes, among males especially. The infantilization of the
American male is a phenomenon we have been slow to recognize.
 
http://www.salon.com/2017/08/12/my-meeting-with-donald-trump-a-damaged-pathetic-personality-whose-obvious-impairment-has-only-gotten-worse/
*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: Aug 12 08:42PM +0200

> working-class votes, among males especially. The infantilization of the
> American male is a phenomenon we have been slow to recognize.
 
> http://www.salon.com/2017/08/12/my-meeting-with-donald-trump-a-damaged-pathetic-personality-whose-obvious-impairment-has-only-gotten-worse/
 
Salon, lol.
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Manuel aka Xax <xamigax@gmail.com>: Aug 12 11:32AM -0700

Le vendredi 11 août 2017 16:45:45 UTC+2, PeteWasLucky a écrit :
> > you afraid he may think winning Basel is the ultimate goal?
 
> No, worried he maybe trying to gather points for ranking #1 before the USO.
 
Be not worried, #1 might be his no matter how "hard" he tries to get it.
Should he win this Montreal, he will "only" need to go as deep as Nadal is going to at Cinci.
 
Not sure Nadal's post loss interview which was quite arrogant, and not very accurate insight (saying that was the worst match he played in 2017) will help his popularity "backstage" (locker room)...
 
Not that players having understood that their best chances to beat Rafa in on HC (or grass, if you're named Muller / Rosol / Brown) is limited to few contenders, anyway :-)
Manco <musefan2009@gmail.com>: Aug 12 11:35AM -0700

I don't think Rafa cares about non-Spanish players in the locker room. He gets along with them and that's fine.
Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Aug 13 03:24AM +1000

On 13/08/2017 1:36 AM, stephenJ wrote:
 
> The slam king will be the GOAT.
 
Well I'm definitely not convinced about that as we do have a lot of
precedents to the contrary.
 
I accept that people who faithfully consider 'slam count king' as goat
will continue to think that way, but they are in a minority imo.
 
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Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Aug 13 03:30AM +1000

On 13/08/2017 2:18 AM, RaspingDrive wrote:
 
>> I think Limpy's getting dizzy from all the spinning he's been doing after #8.
>> Hence this latest gambit.
 
> Limpy! That is a nice word. No offense meant, whisper.
 
None taken. The more abuse I cop just means I'm winning arguments.
 
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stephenJ <sjaros3@cox.net>: Aug 12 01:33PM -0500

On 8/12/2017 12:24 PM, Whisper wrote:
> precedents to the contrary.
 
> I accept that people who faithfully consider 'slam count king' as goat
> will continue to think that way, but they are in a minority imo.
 
The only exceptions I see relate to the obvious - stuff that is pre-open
era gets discounted or is viewed as non-comparable.
 
You really think that if Rafa and Fed both finish with 19 slams that one
of them will be regarded as the undisputed goat?
 
 
 
 
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TennisGuy <TGuy@techsavvy.com>: Aug 12 02:07PM -0400

On 8/12/2017 6:41 AM, *skriptis wrote:
 
> However apparent ethnic Russian new wave in tennis can be nothing
> more than a coincidence.
 
> So good joke material.
 
Right skriptis, this is far too deep for Max to comprehend. :)
acoustic@panix.com (lo yeeOn): Aug 12 05:59PM

In article <67571184-2b14-4fac-9736-cac7a501d16c@googlegroups.com>,
 
>North Korea is different from Iraq. North Korea is very much a
>self-sustain nation. North Korea mainly trade with China. Sanction
>will have limited effect.
 
So what? Right now, China is leaving North Korea out to dry because
the price is appraently too high for China to consider it worth
offending the mighty United States. Yes, sanction in itself won't
kill the country because all people have to have is food and they can
grow their own food for as long as nature allows them to. But don't
forget that Trump is speaking in no uncertain terms that he is going
to denuclearize North Korea and that the latter should do nothing to
get in the way or risk Trumanesque consequences like "they have never
seen before".
 
For more of my rebuttal, please see another one of my follow-ups to
your posts on this subject.
 
Ok, my friend?
 
Cheers,
 
lo yeeOn
PeteWasLucky <waleed.khedr@gmail.com>: Aug 12 09:58AM -0700

> What I see would be best summed up as: Fed looks very marginal out there... low energy and not a lot of focus... or lets say spotty concentration... BUT CLEARLY he needed to play this week... he looks very rusty... he needs court time... his backhand has gone off line... he certainly needs matches to get that cutting edge back to his all court game...
 
He decides how much energy he is willing to spend, so you can't decide if he is rusty or not.
 
He wouldn't burn himself out there for a title in Canada.
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: Aug 12 10:15AM -0700

On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 12:58:57 PM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote:
 

> He wouldn't burn himself out there for a title in Canada.
 
He doesn't have to burn himself out to win the title in Canada. Is Haase going to burn him out? The only players who have any shot at beating him would be Zverev/Shap in the final and it's a long shot for both.
 
Federer knows what he's doing. Stop speaking for him. It's eerie. He didn't play the entire clay season so how could he be burned out? He's obviously trying to get in hc practice matches before the USO and at the same time letting the Montreal fans see him live again.
Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Aug 13 03:31AM +1000

On 13/08/2017 2:27 AM, RaspingDrive wrote:
 
> What the hell are you crapping on about?
 
Carey is suggesting there are some folk who think Fed didn't do well at
AO. I say there are zero.
 
 
 
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Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Aug 13 03:33AM +1000

On 13/08/2017 2:38 AM, Court_1 wrote:
>> from him.
 
> Unless he faces Nadal in which case he will lose in straight sets according to you. :)
 
> Nadal has to get by clowns on hc like Pouille, Dimitrov, Verdasco, etc. etc. He's lost to clown after clown on hc in the past few years. He stands on Mars to return a serve on hard court and he's been terrible on break points in big moments.
 
I agree Rafa's prospects aren't looking great atm. He'll need to find a
way to get into beast mode. We know he's capable - the fun part is
seeing if he actually does it or limps out.
 
 
 
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PeteWasLucky <waleed.khedr@gmail.com>: Aug 12 10:40AM -0700

> Federer knows what he's doing. Stop speaking for him. It's eerie. He didn't play the entire clay season so how could he be burned out? He's obviously trying to get in hc practice matches before the USO and at the same time letting the Montreal fans see him live again.
 
Read the thread to understand my post.
Patrick says he is rusty and I said he will look rusty because he wouldn't play at 100% there
Manco <musefan2009@gmail.com>: Aug 12 10:56AM -0700

Rafa's 'beast mode' ended the moment he stepped on grass. Might as well put him on ice until April 2018.
Manco <musefan2009@gmail.com>: Aug 12 10:55AM -0700

Robin Haase was actually on the ATP Players Council with Rogie. He's even said that they are besties.
acoustic@panix.com (lo yeeOn): Aug 12 05:47PM

In article <49a4e47e-9d21-466e-a50e-a0a987adf978@googlegroups.com>,
 
>Even Donald Trump is not that stupid to attack North Korea knowing full
>well North Korea has nukes. Japan and South Korea will not allow it to
>happen.
 
No, first neither Japan nor South Korea will be able to tell the
U.S. what it can or cannot do. (Remember that President Moon was kept
in the dark when more THAAD components were shipped to Seoul after he
became the president of SK?)
 
Second, Trump has repeatedly said that he would not **allow** NK to
have nukes, period - deterrence or not.
 
Third, Trump has very powerful people in Washington goading him on to
do something about North Korea so that it won't be able to stop us
from doing things in Far East Asia. (Letting North Korea have nukes
has the effect of telling the world that the U.S. has lost a lot of
influence.)
 
Trump's denuclearization strike plan (amidst the fog of diplomacy) is
becoming increasingly clear. It's telling North Korea that the
U.S. is not attempting regime change at this point in time, unless it
fires at U.S. assets - which will trigger immediate and irrevocable
reaction from the mighty U.S. military. So, if the NK elites aren't
crazy people, they will likely let the B2s take out their nuke
facilities like what happened in Operation Babylon, aka Operation
Opera, of 1981, when Israel took out the nuclear facility in Iraq. Or
look at what happened in Operation Orchard (2007), when Israel took
out a suspected reactor in Syria. Of course we all know the
subsequent travails of the people of Iraq and Syria. But at the
moment when somebody more powerful come in and tell you what you
cannot have, you'll just meekly let them in exchange for another day
in the sun. You choose the least bad option!
 
What Trump is doing to North Korea now is no different from those.
 
Basically, Trump was bargaining with North Korea. You won't live
long; but we'll spare you right now if you sit tight. ...
 
Fourth, China's Xi has gone to bed with Trump and when the Chinese
paper suggests that China will stay neutral, it is actually stating
China's official position v North Korea right now. It says it is all
for "denuclearization" on the Korean peninsula. That means that when
Trump sends the B2s to "denuclearize" the NK regime, China won't
object. And while North Korea can do a preemptive strike at the
incoming B2s, it cannot do so without exposing itself to Trump's ire
at the same time exposing itself to be an isolated target since China
will make good on its promise of not coming to NK's defense. But in
any case, NK is doomed when it doesn't have China to come to its aid.
 
And either way, North Korea has no good option.
 
North Korea will be a goner in a few years at the most, even if it
sits tight when Trump's B2s come and bomb out its nukes plus a few
more of those artillery sites behind the North's mountains. (What
happened to Iraq, after all?)
 
Fifth, Trump has been able to co-opt China to make his life easy by
making China oblige to be on the sidelines so that our bombers wouldn't
have to worry about PLA fighter planes nipping at their tails.
 
So, sixth, all Trump needs to do is to bark as loud as possible to
warn North Korea not to do anything stupid such as shooting at Guam.
 
If they hear it like many of us in America have, then they will meekly
walk away from their hard-earned nukes in exchange for a little more
(miserable) time in the sun. Pathetic, isn't it? But that is the
reality since nobody today is willing to pay the price of crossing the
U.S.!
 
(This is no longer 1945 or 1953. Putin is not Stalin and Xi is not
Mao who had a son who died fighting alongside the DPRK soldiers.)
 
Finally, Trump apparently took time to call the governor of Guam and
reassure him with the words: "we'll do a great job ... don't worry
about a thing ..." Now let me ask you why Trump was talking about
doing a great job that might worry the people of Guam? If Trump were
only talking about North Korea's threat, he could have easily said:
"don't worry about a thing ... 'cause North Korea won't dare to do
anything without facing annihilation from our ire (or our bombers)."
 
Why did Trump mention doing "a great job"? What job was he thinking
about doing that might affect Guam?
 
Ok, my friend?
 
Cheers,
 
lo yeeOn
 
*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: Aug 12 06:58PM +0200

> if you have beaten a top 4 in previous 12 months, otherwise you get
> 160k. That will incentivize the player to really try & knock off a big
> 4 rather than mailing it in.
 
 
Your proposal seems complicated. Here's the thing.
 
I don't have an idea how to do exact prize money distribution, but
looking at career prize money of major players from the past
decade and before, I see Berdych has earned cca 25 millions.

 
Yes, he's an elite player. But e.g. Federer or Djokovic are creme
de la creme and they have earned over 100 millions.

 
Look at the most elite active ATP players.
 
GS+atpfinals+masters+oly
 
51 - Federer (19+6+26+0)
47 - Djokovic (12+5+30+0)
46 - Nadal (15+0+30+1)
20 - Murray (3+1+14+2)
4 - Wawrinka (3+0+1+0)
2 - Cilic (1+0+1+0)
2 - Tsonga (0+0+2+0)
1 - del Potro (1+0+0+0)
1 - Haas (0+0+1+0)
1 - Berdych (0+0+1+0)
1 - Robredo (0+0+1+0)
1 - Ferrer (0+0+1+0)
1 - Zverev (0+0+1+0)
 
 
I'm not against Berdych. Not everyone can become a slam, or
especially multi slam winner.
But this guy is not winning titles at all. Someone like Murray at
least wins a lot.
 
I think that a very consistent but essentially limited guy like
Berdych should not retire and have 25% of Federer's or Djokovic's
tournament prize money. He's not at 25% of their success.

 
I think titles, not just slam titles, but masters titles too
should be the lucrative stuff, and earlier rounds, finals, semis
etc should be less rewarded.
 
The surplus of the saved money (I most certainly don't think it
should go to Federer or Nadal beyond what they have now) should
be redirected to lower ATP events to help broaden the pool.

 
Basically, the problem I see in tennis is that the middle class
(Berdych, Ferrer, etc) are very well fed.
Give that to the lower classes.
 
 
E.g. slam title, one million prize money
Then runner up, 100 thousands
Not 500 thousands or more like it is now.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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