Digest for rec.sport.tennis@googlegroups.com - 25 updates in 5 topics

Sunday, August 13, 2017

*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: Aug 13 05:36PM +0200


>> But he most likely is the best 'at peak' player of this era. Certainly
>> I see his best as better than Fed or Djoker, on every surface.
 
> No, he is not the best on HC and GC in this era and far from it when it was time to face up the pressure defending his slam titles on those surface, you can expect him to shit his pants and not able to handle the pressure, he did not in his two Wimbledon defence, did not at AO and again at USO. When you are the best at best you need to show some resolve in defending the title. He is the best in not defending his non clay court titles and with expectation to shit his own pants when it was his part to defend a slam not played on clay.
 
 
Connors won 7 non-clay slams and defended just one title.
 
Nadal won 5. Is it such a big deal?
 
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Tim <firemonkey@gatty.co.uk>: Aug 13 04:52PM +0100

On 13/08/2017 03:07, Manco wrote:
> Yeah but 10 French Opens is unreal.
 
Which just proves it's a clown era for clay.
 
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TT <ascii@dprk.kp>: Aug 13 07:02PM +0300

Tim kirjoitti 13.8.2017 klo 18:52:
> On 13/08/2017 03:07, Manco wrote:
>> Yeah but 10 French Opens is unreal.
 
> Which just proves it's a clown era for clay.
 
Who faced two of his main rivals as often at a slam as Nadal did at RG?
Carey <carey_1959@yahoo.com>: Aug 13 09:07AM -0700

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 9:03:00 AM UTC-7, TT wrote:
 
> > Which just proves it's a clown era for clay.
 
> Who faced two of his main rivals as often at a slam as Nadal did at RG?
 
 
There is no way to dispute that Raffi is the best ever on the dirt.
"Pelle Svanslös" <pelle@svans.com>: Aug 13 07:10PM +0300

On 13.8.2017 19:07, Carey wrote:
 
>>> Which just proves it's a clown era for clay.
 
>> Who faced two of his main rivals as often at a slam as Nadal did at RG?
 
> There is no way to dispute that Raffi is the best ever on the dirt.
 
Djok did pwn him nicely on clay too when he was still alive. Had the
tummy match gone the other way ...
 
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stephenJ <sjaros3@cox.net>: Aug 13 11:23AM -0500

On 8/13/2017 9:29 AM, *skriptis wrote:
> just once, even though he won it 5 times. Nobody talks about that
> as it's irrelevant.
 
> Otoh, Courier defended both his AO and FO titles so what?
 
Nobody is talking about Courier or Connors as GOAT. Standards are higher
at that level.
 
That said, I agree with you, it's a pretty minor detail. Better to win 5
USO spread out over 13 years like Sampras did than to win 3 in a row
like Lendl did, obviously.
 
 
 
 
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"Pelle Svanslös" <pelle@svans.com>: Aug 13 06:32PM +0300

On 13.8.2017 18:27, Court_1 wrote:
 
> If Fed was peak himself playing against peak Djokovic? Of course he
> would have won slams! He was taking peak Djokovic to the edge at W
> 2014
 
And lost. Tennis doesn't work the way you think it works. It's not a
game of averages, it you know what I mean.
 
>> Clown Era redux.
 
> You have the nerve to talk about clown eras when you look at the
> field Djokovic had to face from 2014-2016? Please.
 
I indeed do. We've been through this before and you received a KO. No
reason to go through it again.
 
--
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RaspingDrive <raspingdrive@gmail.com>: Aug 13 08:36AM -0700

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 11:20:57 AM UTC-4, Pelle Svanslös wrote:
> play peakest Djokovic, would he have won any?".
 
> His chances would have been significantly less than they are in Clown
> Era redux.
 
This can't be looked at in isolation --- peak Djok is a product of playing Federer again and again. Who is to say that he would readily capitalize on a young Fed when you factor in the amount of hard work Djok needed to level with Federer. For all we know, Fed would still have racked up the slams. A case can be made for 2014-2016 being clown era redux, with Nadal off, Murray off, and Fed old. It is during that time Stan racked up his slams as well.
Carey <carey_1959@yahoo.com>: Aug 13 08:40AM -0700

I guess there really are people who think Djok/Murray/Nadal's type of tennis
is best to watch and play.
 
 
Life's a funny thing.
"Pelle Svanslös" <pelle@svans.com>: Aug 13 06:41PM +0300

On 13.8.2017 18:36, RaspingDrive wrote:
> playing Federer again and again. Who is to say that he would readily
> capitalize on a young Fed when you factor in the amount of hard work
> Djok needed to level with Federer.
 
We are talking about the present. It's pretty darn clear that the
addition of a peak Djok to the fray would of made Rogi's life more
difficult.
 
--
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TT <ascii@dprk.kp>: Aug 13 06:42PM +0300

Pelle Svanslös kirjoitti 13.8.2017 klo 18:28:
> You forgot to mention that Djok played with 9 toenails against 10 in the
> last USO final for instance.
 
Lol
 
Gotta love these Djokotard excuses.
"Pelle Svanslös" <pelle@svans.com>: Aug 13 06:42PM +0300

On 13.8.2017 18:40, Carey wrote:
> I guess there really are people who think Djok/Murray/Nadal's type of tennis
> is best to watch and play.
 
It's not about that at all. It's whether you enjoy foregone conclusions.
 
--
"Donald Trump is the weak man's vision of a strong man."
-- Charles Cooke
RaspingDrive <raspingdrive@gmail.com>: Aug 13 08:49AM -0700

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 11:41:37 AM UTC-4, Pelle Svanslös wrote:
 
> We are talking about the present. It's pretty darn clear that the
> addition of a peak Djok to the fray would of made Rogi's life more
> difficult.
 
Here is another woulda coulda: Peak djok operated for 6 years. Let's say he was there in 2004. OK, Federer gets a few less than 13 or 14, but then is back in business from 2010 and racks up the remaining slams to make it 19. Anything can happen in such scenarios. Please deal with facts. WoO is an equal opportunity creature.
RaspingDrive <raspingdrive@gmail.com>: Aug 13 08:51AM -0700

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 11:42:15 AM UTC-4, TT wrote:
> > last USO final for instance.
 
> Lol
 
> Gotta love these Djokotard excuses.
 
The only dominant force was Nadal. I have a lot lot lot of respect for him. He could beat Federer consistently on HCs when Fed was at peak. Says a lot about his caliber.
"Pelle Svanslös" <pelle@svans.com>: Aug 13 06:58PM +0300

On 13.8.2017 18:49, RaspingDrive wrote:
> but then is back in business from 2010 and racks up the remaining
> slams to make it 19. Anything can happen in such scenarios. Please
> deal with facts. WoO is an equal opportunity creature.
 
In essence, I'm not speculating at all. What I'm saying is that there
*is* a WoO, like you. And that is as a result of ...
 
What's controversial about that?
 
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*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: Aug 13 05:59PM +0200

>> last USO final for instance.
 
> Lol
 
> Gotta love these Djokotard excuses.
 
 
 
This group of fool of extreme fanbois
or haters of different players.
 
In this case how is Djokovic's toenails bleeding (and probably
being painful and preventing him to give maximum) an excuse? An
excuse for what. Does he get 40% of Wawrinka's USO title for his
injury if we accept the "excuse"?
 
Cilic suffered the same in Wimbledon final, even wept, and I've
seen no similar reactions or comments. Most likely because the
fedtards wanted to preserve the impression and grandeur of
Federer's win.
 
 
Really weird people. But I guess they have the need to deconstruct
"peak Djokovic" aura, so they proclaim guy was peak even when
semi-crippled on court. They hate him or, his best level, that
much.
 
 
 
 
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"Pelle Svanslös" <pelle@svans.com>: Aug 13 05:55PM +0300

On 13.8.2017 17:45, Court_1 wrote:
 
> The fact that Federer is winning slams at age 35/36 doesn't mean he's
> peak.
 
It means he's been good enuff to win slams all the time. That he now
actually does, is because the cats are away.
 
The age excuses are dead ducks.
 
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"Donald Trump is the weak man's vision of a strong man."
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RaspingDrive <raspingdrive@gmail.com>: Aug 13 09:11AM -0700

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 11:59:03 AM UTC-4, *skriptis wrote:
> "peak Djokovic" aura, so they proclaim guy was peak even when
> semi-crippled on court. They hate him or, his best level, that
> much.
 
 
You agree that "bleeding toenails" was not the reason for the loss to Stan in AO 2014 and FO 2015? You believe his injured arm was the reason why he lost to Berdych? He was cruising all along until that match with nary a murmur regarding any injury whatsoever. The only discussion was whether or not his recent distractions were behind him or not.
 
Here is the fact: Peak Djok lost to a bunch of great players and clowns. Peak Nadal on clay did not lose to clowns. THAT IS DOMINANCE.
RaspingDrive <raspingdrive@gmail.com>: Aug 13 09:12AM -0700

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 11:58:53 AM UTC-4, Pelle Svanslös wrote:
 
> In essence, I'm not speculating at all. What I'm saying is that there
> *is* a WoO, like you. And that is as a result of ...
 
> What's controversial about that?
 
What's controversial about 2014-2016 affording a WoO for Djok? He cashed in on that well.
"Pelle Svanslös" <pelle@svans.com>: Aug 13 07:16PM +0300

On 13.8.2017 19:11, RaspingDrive wrote:
 
> Here is the fact: Peak Djok lost to a bunch of great players and
> clowns. Peak Nadal on clay did not lose to clowns. THAT IS
> DOMINANCE.
 
On the surface of it, that's a pretty poor fact. You consider only
Rafa's pony surface, with Djok you're indiscriminate, any loss goes.
 
And even the "any loss" is an motley list of losses to clowns for Djok
only. If you list his losses, list the clown losses of the others too.
 
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"Pelle Svanslös" <pelle@svans.com>: Aug 13 07:18PM +0300

On 13.8.2017 19:12, RaspingDrive wrote:
>> *is* a WoO, like you. And that is as a result of ...
 
>> What's controversial about that?
 
> What's controversial about 2014-2016 affording a WoO for Djok?
 
He had an opportunity on clay, sure. Elsewhere, he didn't need the
opportunities you're peddling. AO 2016 final anyone?
 
The loser of that final is now winning left and right.
 
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-- Charles Cooke
*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: Aug 13 06:19PM +0200

>> *is* a WoO, like you. And that is as a result of ...
 
>> What's controversial about that?
 
> What's controversial about 2014-2016 affording a WoO for Djok? He cashed in on that well.
 
 
WoO is one thing but to call it weak era is ridiculously biased
when you have Federer couple of years younger than he's now,
playing in Wim, USO, YEC, finals, peaking Murray, tough Stan, and
clay Nadal in 2014.
 
If that is weak, how would one describe beating Baghdatis/Gonzales
to win AO, and Ferrer/Blake to win YEC?
 
 
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Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: Aug 13 08:58AM -0700

TT, did you watch any more good movies?
 
A couple I saw.
 
1) A Man Escaped 1956. A French film directed by Robert Bresson. It's an intimate and claustrophobic look at a prison escape. It was good but was no Midnight Express (the best prison escape movie I've ever seen.) It was a competent film but not GREAT as its reputation may have you believe IMO.
 
2) I'm Not Scared 2003. Italian mystery, crime, drama film based on a novella which was based on a true story about a boy who was kidnapped in Milan, Italy in the 70s. It's a nice film with a powerful story and beautiful cinematography.
*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: Aug 13 05:45PM +0200

>> oppressing and arresting Chinese tourists who fool around with
>> Hitler salutes in Berlin?
 
> We have Neonazis like you even here in Germany. We don't want them to provoke jews here with the salute of an organisation which was responsible for the murder of 6 million jews.
 
 
Yeah, rightt. First label me as Russian, them imply I like Hitler,
who killed 27 million Russians.
Top notch logic.
 
I was right saying you didn't and can't understand what Stephen
was saying.
 
 
 
 
 
> So the Nazi salute and the Nazi swastika are verboten here. Deal with it, Russki.
 
See, here it comes me as sovereignist. The way I "supported"
north Korea, or Cuba, I'm supporting you as well to have any laws
in your country as you see fit.
I don't care what you ban or not, your choice.
 
But I will reserve a right to call you a hypocrite.
 
 
 
 
 
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Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: Aug 13 08:18AM -0700

On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 11:09:30 AM UTC-4, TT wrote:
> >> few points... is he Russian born / of Russian heritage?
 
> > Shap's parents were both born in what was formerly the Soviet Union. They emigrated to Tel Aviv and that's where Denis was born and then the family moved to Canada before Dennis was a year old.
 
> Ok, a Russian Jew then.
 
Denis identifies as Russian Orthodox. Some sites say his mother is Jewish and some say his father is? I'm not sure what's accurate but Denis doesn't identify as Jewish. He wears a big ass crucifix around his neck.
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