Digest for rec.sport.tennis@googlegroups.com - 25 updates in 12 topics

Sunday, August 13, 2017

Manuel aka Xax <xamigax@gmail.com>: Aug 13 04:21AM -0700

Le samedi 12 août 2017 20:32:09 UTC+2, Pelle Svanslös a écrit :
> working-class votes, among males especially. The infantilization of the
> American male is a phenomenon we have been slow to recognize.
 
> http://www.salon.com/2017/08/12/my-meeting-with-donald-trump-a-damaged-pathetic-personality-whose-obvious-impairment-has-only-gotten-worse/
 
Thanks for sharing, I've read about 15% and will read the entire article later, for it seems to deserve it.
TT <ascii@dprk.kp>: Aug 13 04:12PM +0300

Manuel aka Xax kirjoitti 13.8.2017 klo 14:21:
> Thanks for sharing, I've read about 15%
 
Two minute man?
TT <ascii@dprk.kp>: Aug 13 04:01PM +0300

Patrick Kehoe kirjoitti 13.8.2017 klo 8:07:
>> seeing if he actually does it or limps out.
 
> Ya, among the press, there was a kind of surprize at Rafa's attitude all week in Canada... It had some wondering if there wasn't something else going on with Rafa; needless to say, losing to a teenager just kept him in a temper; missing out on getting back to #1 (for now) almost had him boiling over... AND YET, no one could find out anything solid as to why Rafa was so agitated all week in Canada. The issue has some of the guys I know in the press looking out for Rafa when they go to Cincinnati... its becoming a bit of a back story... is it just the pressure at the prospect at getting back to #1 or are there other issues behind the scenes... so far no one has sused it out...
 
> P
 
Rafa has not been mentally at his best the entire season, apart from RG
where he was great in all aspects.
 
Shapovalov did play and serve great though, which made it a matter of
few points... is he Russian born / of Russian heritage?
PeteWasLucky <waleed.khedr@gmail.com>: Aug 13 06:09AM -0700

> Rafa has not been mentally at his best the entire season, apart from RG
where he was great in all aspects.
 
Shapovalov did play and serve great though, which made it a matter of
few points... is he Russian born / of Russian heritage?
 
Mentally not at his best apart from RG? lol
 
Why? Is his brain buried under clay, and he plugs it in when he is on clay?
 
Listen, nadal did very well in 2017, slam final and a master final on HC.
As I mentioned before, as players get very old, they lose their flexibility to adjust to surfaces they are not comfortable with.
This applies to Nadal and Federer.
 
I expect Federer to ignore clay going forward and Nadal killing himself to win everything on clay as well.
TT <ascii@dprk.kp>: Aug 13 04:07PM +0300


>> How?
 
> Ended their nuclear program I mean.
 
> Max
 
How?
"Pelle Svanslös" <pelle@svans.com>: Aug 13 12:35PM +0300

On 13.8.2017 12:28, The Iceberg wrote:
> On Friday, 11 August 2017 21:49:15 UTC+1, soccerfan777 wrote:
>> If NK use nuclear weapons and US retaliates with nuclear, all bets are off. Iran, Pakistan, Israel and India and Russia follow suit
 
> so you actually reckon there's going to be a nuclear war cos of Trump?!
 
Because of Mueller. I hope the SOB keeps his Grand Juries in line.
 
--
"Donald Trump is the weak man's vision of a strong man."
-- Charles Cooke
TT <ascii@dprk.kp>: Aug 13 04:07PM +0300


> You mean because negotiations with NK have had so much success in the last 25 years, right?
 
> Max
 
Trump said he'd make a deal with Kim... didn't even try.
Quite the opposite.
Manuel aka Xax <xamigax@gmail.com>: Aug 13 04:13AM -0700

Le dimanche 13 août 2017 04:07:35 UTC+2, Manco a écrit :
> Yeah but 10 French Opens is unreal.
 
+1
Manuel aka Xax <xamigax@gmail.com>: Aug 13 04:19AM -0700

> Now you're just relegated to woulda-coulda-shoulda when it comes to nadal cos reality is 180 degrees reversed and he's just utter shit now.
 
> #20 > #15
 
Hum...
Are you trolling or trying to have Fedfans considered as dumber than average Joe?
Talking about reality and ending with #20 > #15 ?
Not even mentioning that you qualified one of Nadal best year as utter shit because he lost a match to a quite highly promising youngster ?
 
You're embarrassing yourself, and many less biased Fedfans, I guess.
Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Aug 13 09:28PM +1000

On 13/08/2017 12:07 PM, Manco wrote:
> Yeah but 10 French Opens is unreal.
 
It's surreal, when you consider Borg's 6 was considered insurmountable.
 
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Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Aug 13 09:39PM +1000

On 13/08/2017 5:34 PM, John Liang wrote:
 
>> Let's be honest about it, excluding slams, it's a bogus stat anyway.
 
> Let's face it , he has not defend a single non clay court tournament in his whole career. It is not a bogus stat but a fact.
 
One of the reasons this stat is 'bogus' is exactly because of Rafa.
He's proven to be better than Federer at peak, so 'defending a slam off
clay' doesn't mean he's not better than Federer. Get it?
 
Conversely Federer mustn't be very good to allow himself to be owned by
such a 1-dimensioanl player. So you see you lose the argument on many
levels.
 
 
 
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Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Aug 13 09:40PM +1000

On 13/08/2017 5:38 PM, John Liang wrote:
>>> or Indian Wells made such a difference now?
 
>> Nadal is the only guy who had to compete against two 10 plus slam winners and still secured 15. Dominated Federer, was in turn dominated by Djok but eventually was able to beat him at USO, his supposed weaker surface. One of the goat contenders for sure. All this one-trick pony business are bogus things. No offense meant to Ahonkan. I say he should concentrate on FO and get four or five more. Seriously.
 
> And much of his dominance over Federer and Djoker in slam were built on clay, he won 5 of his slam on hc/gc inferior to his main rivals who had 18 and 11 slam titles on HC/GC, Nadal is clearly not the best HC/GC player in this era and Federer/Djoker are better than him on those two surfaces.
 
But he most likely is the best 'at peak' player of this era. Certainly
I see his best as better than Fed or Djoker, on every surface.
 
 
 
 
 
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joh <joshorst@gmail.com>: Aug 13 05:21AM -0700

Op zondag 13 augustus 2017 13:40:44 UTC+2 schreef Whisper:
 
> But he most likely is the best 'at peak' player of this era. Certainly
> I see his best as better than Fed or Djoker, on every surface.
 
The thing is: you win at most one slam per slam.
Lousy resource management is gonna cost ya, legacy wise.
stephenJ <sjaros3@cox.net>: Aug 13 08:06AM -0500

On 8/12/2017 10:02 PM, *skriptis wrote:
> at the door of the highest achievement in terms of defending
> titles. Didn't make it in the end. So would have defending Doha
> or Indian Wells made such a difference now?
 
There's no denying that off of clay, Nadal hasn't been anywhere near a
GOAT contender. Two Wimbledons and three total HC slams? That's Edberg
territory, not GOAT territory.
 
We all know Nadal has been brilliant on surfaces other than clay - USO
2010 and Wimbledon 2008 come immediately to mind - but the mark of a
great champ is being able to do it consistently, and Nadal just hasn't.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Brian W Lawrence <brian_w_lawrence@msn.com>: Aug 13 12:55PM +0100

On 12/08/2017 21:19, *skriptis wrote:
>> of the White House and the people around the President."
 
> How is Trump to be blamed for today's protesters being attacked by
> anti-protesters?
 
David Duke, former KKK leader, said at the rally, ""This represents a
turning point for the people of this country. We are determined to take
our country back, we're going to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump,
and that's what we believed in, that's why we voted for Donald Trump,
because he said he's going to take our country back and that's what we
gotta do."
 
Duke also responded to Trump's recent Tweet, "I would recommend you take
a good look in the mirror & remember it was White Americans who put you
in the presidency, not radical leftists," Duke tweeted, referring to
Trump's base.
 
 
 
 
 
 
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*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: Aug 13 02:00PM +0200

> a good look in the mirror & remember it was White Americans who put you
> in the presidency, not radical leftists," Duke tweeted, referring to
> Trump's base.
 
 
So make up your mind is that David Duke guy satisfied with Trump
or not?
 
 
 
 
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stephenJ <sjaros3@cox.net>: Aug 13 07:59AM -0500

On 8/12/2017 4:18 PM, Pelle Svanslös wrote:
 
>> The euro-wimp should have said "Trump blamed by liberal democrat mayor
>> for violent clashes". Would have been more accurate.
 
> It's implied.
 
No it wasn't.
 
 
 
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Manuel aka Xax <xamigax@gmail.com>: Aug 13 04:11AM -0700

Le samedi 12 août 2017 20:35:21 UTC+2, Manco a écrit :
> I don't think Rafa cares about non-Spanish players in the locker room. He gets along with them and that's fine.
 
I wasn't talking about Rafa's consideration about other players, I was speaking about the way around.
How motivated some players can get when facing Nadal out of clay, and how successful some are indeed.
 
For more players, seeing that, despite having an incredible year on his own, Nadal still is *somewhat* more vulnerable when not playing on clay.
Cannot but give a bit extra boost to a wider bunch of players (those having already beat Nadal on HC, and those who came quite close to).
TT <ascii@dprk.kp>: Aug 13 03:55PM +0300

Patrick Kehoe kirjoitti 13.8.2017 klo 8:01:
> Zverev feels he's building off what he's already acheived so far this season and happily he's giving himself a lot of chances to win titles and gain big match experience
 
 
Is he there to gain experience instead of winning? Doesn't sound promising.
*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: Aug 13 01:23PM +0200

>> > ...was clutch. So deep and spinny. Mighta won him the match.
 
>> Just watched the third set tiebreak. Nadal played poorly.
 
> Nadal always plays poorly in deciding games, final set tiebreaks and other vital moments. He's weak mentally, but that has been masked by his athletic prowess.
 
 
I like this. Not that I agree with your statement necessarily but
you're showing great guts and ability to think outside of the
box, you're not scared of being controversial.
 
Actually the stuff you're saying is worth discussing.
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TT <ascii@dprk.kp>: Aug 13 03:54PM +0300

Tuan kirjoitti 13.8.2017 klo 7:59:
>>> ...was clutch. So deep and spinny. Mighta won him the match.
 
>> Just watched the third set tiebreak. Nadal played poorly.
 
> Nadal always plays poorly in deciding games, final set tiebreaks and other vital moments. He's weak mentally, but that has been masked by his athletic prowess.
 
What a bunch of crap. Rafa has always been strong on big points apart
from last couple years.
*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: Aug 13 01:20PM +0200

> Berdych: 0 - 0 - 1 [13 ATP Titles]
> Robredo: 0 - 0 - 1 [12 ATP Titles]
> ++ Next Gen: Zverev: 0 - 0 - 1 [5 ATP Titles]
 
Tnx
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Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Aug 13 09:17PM +1000

On 13/08/2017 4:39 AM, Manuel aka Xax wrote:
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> http://www.avg.com
 
> Don't tell me you consider more Thiem SF @FO than Kyrgios 2xQF @W &AO ?
 
Neither do it for me. They need to step up & win of these fucking slams.
Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Aug 13 09:15PM +1000

On 13/08/2017 4:33 AM, stephenJ wrote:
>> will continue to think that way, but they are in a minority imo.
 
> The only exceptions I see relate to the obvious - stuff that is pre-open
> era gets discounted or is viewed as non-comparable.
 
 
That's mostly what I'm referring to, and really can't be dismissed so
easily. Laver certainly doesn't seem like a lesser goat than Fed/Rafa.
He missed 5 of his peakest yrs to the pro tour, yet still won 2 calendar
slams. He's the only guy to win it in open era, & 1 of 2 to ever win it
at all. He also won the pro calendar slam in 1967. He not only passed
every test there is, he smashed it out of the ballpark time & again. He
won the last 2 Wimbledons before he turned pro, & then won the next 2 as
soon open era started - conceivably could have won 9 in a row. In the
pros he won the Wembley title (Wimbledon equivalent) in 1964, 1965,
1966, 1967. Pretty impressive when the best tennis players were all in
the pros. He then won Wimbledon in 1968 & 1969. He won Davis Cup 5 times.
 
He also won calendar slams in 3 varieties - amateur, pro & open era. He
had a positive h2h v every single player. He won 200 singles titles
overall (Fed hasn't won 100 yet). He won 17 singles titles & also 17
doubles titles in 1969. He won Davis Cup 5 times.
 
I doubt I'll ever see the day someone can put Laver out of top spot.
Fed could have done it had he beaten Rafa in 2006 & 2007 FO finals to
possibly give him 2 calendar slams in a row. As it is Fed never made it
halfway to a calendar slam.
 
The scary thing is as good as Laver was, Lew Hoad was probably even
better at peak. He just had a bad back & shorter time at the top, but
certainly he's a strong boat candidate. Laver, Rosewall, Pancho etc all
say Hoad was the best ever at peak. He played 'ping pong' tennis with
wood rackets - phenomenal to watch what he did with a wood racket.
 
 
> You really think that if Rafa and Fed both finish with 19 slams that one
> of them will be regarded as the undisputed goat?
 
Imo Fed/Rafa with 19 slams each would put them in tier 1 of all time
goats - very much in the conversation, but neither 'undisputed'. Imo
that's all any of the greats want - to be in the goat conversation.
Fed/Rafa have the distinction of playing their whole careers
uninterrupted in the open era & competing in all slams over a very long
time.
 
When I think of 'undisputed goat' I'm thinking something like 3 calendar
slams need to be in the bag, & something like what Rafa did at FO.
Otherwise it's always 'disputed'.
 
Fed would loom a lot larger had he won all 11 Wimbledon finals he's
contested so far.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Manuel aka Xax <xamigax@gmail.com>: Aug 13 04:01AM -0700

Le samedi 12 août 2017 06:55:00 UTC+2, Carey a écrit :
 
> > It will be up to born 97-01(Zverev, Shap, auger-aliassime, ruud) to take over around 2018-2019.
 
> Well, Kyrgios isn't really in that group, at least by age... I hope he decides
> he wants it, because he too has 'it', and can be electrifying.
 
+1
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