Digest for rec.sport.golf@googlegroups.com - 25 updates in 4 topics

Friday, August 11, 2017

David Laville <dlaville@bellsouth.net>: Aug 11 03:22PM -0500

On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 22:53:59 -0400, Carbon
 
>I did play with a guy who was a disciple of Natural Golf. He was very straight, as advertised, but his average drive was only 225 or so, or about a 5-wood.
 
There are 4 things in the golf swing that give you speed and power; 1)
the uncocking or straightening right arm. 2) the uncocking left wrist.
3) the rolling left wrist. 4) the torso turning against your left arm
(body momentum transfer). The Natural golf swing only uses two of
these, the straightening right arm and the uncocking left wrist. We
call it a "double barrel" swing (using only 2 of the 4 accumulators).
Very limited in power.
 
>That said, I do think that in the hands of someone with more talent than me the traditional swing would win hands-down. 40-50 yard drives make a big difference, especially when you're a club or two longer with the short irons.
 
Because the traditional swing uses more accumulators; #2 - the
uncocking left wrist, #3 - the rolling left wrist and #4 - body
momentum transfer, the torso turning against the left arm. It's a
triple barrel swing (using 3 of the 4 accumulators). The more
accumulators you use the more power and speed you get.
David Laville <dlaville@bellsouth.net>: Aug 11 03:22PM -0500


>Reading a fascinating book about his life and legacy. I recall some discussion about him and Natural Golf. Most of it critical. Don't remember why???
 
Moe Norman came to the publics eye thanks to a charlatan by the name
of Jack Kuykendall. Jack Kuykendall started in the 1980's selling
clubs he designed through Amway. The venture was a complete flop. A
couple of years later be popped up again, this time trying to pass
himself off as a physicist who discovered the perfect swing. After
discovering this physics perfect swing he claimed someone told him a
Canadian golfer by the name of Moe Norman swung like that. Thus
Natural golf was born, with the catch to use this new physics perfect
swing and swing like Moe Norman you needed to use his Natural Golf
Clubs. They were nothing more than his left over inventory from his
Amway days. Natural Golf was his new vehicle to sell his golf clubs.
 
Jack Kuykendall wasn't a physicist. He cleverly claimed his
"training", not his "education", was in laser physics. I can't
remember the exact details but he worked for a company either making
or selling equipment for eyeglasses that used lasers. Most people
were mislead and thought he had a college degree in physics, which was
his intention.
 
He also later admitted that he developed the Natural Golf swing after
seeing Moe Normans swing a club.
David Laville <dlaville@bellsouth.net>: Aug 11 03:22PM -0500

>drives and land them all in a 25 Sq. ft. area. There's a lot about
>him on the Internet including a bunch of videos on UTUBE, including
>some of the greats saying he was the straightest ball striker ever.

I heard a story where Hogan claimed you couldn't hit a golf ball
perfectly straight, it had to have some type of curve and if you did
hit it straight it was because you made a mistake. After watching Moe
Norman hit balls he told him to keep making those mistakes.
David Laville <dlaville@bellsouth.net>: Aug 11 03:22PM -0500


>Yep...been viewing them. Couple of things that struck me. One is that he discovered a homemade swing with fewer moving parts. My swing could use fewer moving parts. The other is the journey of a pro golfer named Todd Graves, who incorporated Moe's moves into his swing and became a better ball striker. First change was higher hands at setup. I'm going to try this for fun at the range soon.
 
The higher hands at setup is actually geometrically correct and is one
of the alignments advocated in The Golfing Machine. The difference in
being TGM doesn't advocate the reaching. At impact the right forearm
and clubshaft align themselves so why not set up like this? The vast
majority of golfers set up with the clubshaft going through their belt
buckle or waist at impact which creates too much left arm/clubshaft
angle and puts their left shoulder too close to the ball; not enough
left shoulder to ball radius. At impact when the right forearm and
clubshaft become aligned and the left wrist is uncocked the left
shoulder to ball radius in increased.
 
To subconsciously compensate for this you'll see golfers lose their
forward waist bend and look hunched back at impact. It's more
commonly known as "losing your posture" because you're trying to stand
up to increase the radius while keeping your head still. It's such a
common problem that the internet and YouTube have a plethora of
articles and videos about how to maintain your posture. The solution
is simple, set up with your impact alignments and you won't have to
make compensations in the downswing for impact. The golf world would
do golfers so much better if it would teach them address is not
impact, there is a difference. Address is the position you elect to
start the swing out of, it's not impact unless you establish impact
alignments and decide to start the swing from there.
 
>I take it you never saw Moe in person?
 
A good friend of mine attended a Moe Norman clinic. He said while Moe
did hit the ball well some of it was hyperbole. He said Moe would hit
a drive and say "that's 300 yards" while the ball went maybe 250 yards
most. Or he would say "that's straight down the pipe" while the ball
was several yards off line. If you notice most of the videos show
Moe's swing, you never see where the ball goes and you just have to
take his word.
David Laville <dlaville@bellsouth.net>: Aug 11 03:22PM -0500


>>I take it you never saw Moe in person?
 
>No I didn't.
 
>Went to the range and tried some of it. Very difficult. The book claims he had incredible eye to hand and was a natural lefty playing right because LH clubs were difficult to find in the 30's and 40's.

Don't reach for the ball! Setup in your normal address position than
adjust your knee and waist bend until your right forearm and clubshaft
are in line. For 99.99999% of the golfers they will have to stand up
taller. You establish correct radius to the ball as well as correct
knee and waist bend by adjusting your knee and waist bend at address
until your right forearm and clubshaft are in line (when looking down
the line).
 
Get in front of a mirror with a club and notice the relationship
between your right forearm and clubshaft when you move between the two
extremes, too much knee and waist bend and not enough knee and waist
bend.
MNMikeW <mnmiikkew@aol.com>: Aug 11 03:44PM -0500

David Laville wrote:
 
> or selling equipment for eyeglasses that used lasers. Most people
> were mislead and thought he had a college degree in physics, which was
> his intention.
 
Sounds a lot like that Bill Nye fraud.
Moderate <nospam@noemail.com>: Aug 11 03:43PM -0500

> Does that mean hat you think Kim is a professional? You're a fucking
> idiot. Kim and Trump are the same, megalomaniacs. They aren't
> communicating at all.
 
No it means what the cite states.
 
Stop calling me an idiot every time you can't understand
something. I am not your butt buddy.
--
David Laville <dlaville@bellsouth.net>: Aug 11 03:20PM -0500

On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 20:06:02 -0400, Carbon
 
>As one would expect from a compulsive liar...
 
>"Trump will sometimes respond to a shot he duffed by simply playing a second ball and carrying on as if the first shot never happened. In the parlance of the game, Trump takes floating mulligans, usually more than one during a round. Because of them it is impossible to say what he has actually shot on any given day, according to 18 people who have teed it up with Trump over the last decade, including SI senior writer Michael Bamberger, who has done so nine times. In 2007, Trump called Bamberger to brag about a 68 he had shot at Bel-Air Country Club in Los Angeles. Trump's handicap index is officially 2.8, but he has posted only three scores since '14. Els, a South Florida resident who has known Trump for many years, estimates he is "an eight or a nine." For Trump to shoot 68 on a tough course like Bel-Air would require him to play nearly perfectly from tee to green while making a number of substantial putts. One of his playing partners that day confirmed that Trump played "good,"
but
>that he took all the usual liberties common among everyday golfers: mulligans, gimmes, improved lies, etc. There was no mention of the 68 in a subsequent story, and Bamberger heard about it from Trump."
 
>https://goo.gl/8NkuYx
 
How does this affect your or my life?
 
How does this affect your or my golf game?
 
Is Trump cheating at golf preventing you from earning a living? Is it
preventing you from putting food on the table? Until it does stop
acting like a 3 year old child.
David Laville <dlaville@bellsouth.net>: Aug 11 03:20PM -0500

On Thu, 3 Aug 2017 08:35:41 -0000 (UTC), "DumbedDownUSA"
 
>> Don't care about his golf game.
>> I mostly care about his signature.
 
>Be honest, you only care about yourself Greg.
 
So do most liberals. Trump won approx. 84% of the geographic United
States and 9 months later you leftist are still crying to have him
thrown out of office because he doesn't support your agendas.
David Laville <dlaville@bellsouth.net>: Aug 11 03:20PM -0500

On Thu, 3 Aug 2017 03:43:53 -0400, Carbon
 
>>> https://goo.gl/8NkuYx
 
>> BFD
 
>I agree, it is a big fucking deal. Ernie Els estimates that Trump is an 8 or 9 in reality, which would be respectable enough, but Trump lies about every round he plays and even got would up at a reporter who refused to publish one of his fictitious scores.

So Trump lieing about his handicap, something that affects 0.0% of
your life is a BFD to you.
 
Proof liberalism is a mental disorder.
Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net>: Aug 11 01:28PM -0700

On 2017-08-11 1:20 PM, David Laville wrote:
>> that he took all the usual liberties common among everyday golfers: mulligans, gimmes, improved lies, etc. There was no mention of the 68 in a subsequent story, and Bamberger heard about it from Trump."
 
>> https://goo.gl/8NkuYx
 
> How does this affect your or my life?
 
Insomuch as it reveals the character of the man (dishonest, a cheat)
who've you've chosen to give such power over your lives.
 
Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net>: Aug 11 01:28PM -0700

On 2017-08-11 1:20 PM, David Laville wrote:
 
> So do most liberals. Trump won approx. 84% of the geographic United
> States and 9 months later you leftist are still crying to have him
> thrown out of office because he doesn't support your agendas.
 
Trump won less than 50% of the PEOPLE, David.
 
 
But then I guess people aren't important to you.
BK@Onramp.net: Aug 11 03:33PM -0500

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 15:20:22 -0500, David Laville
 
>Is Trump cheating at golf preventing you from earning a living? Is it
>preventing you from putting food on the table? Until it does stop
>acting like a 3 year old child.
 
in fact it does affect us because he's the POTUS and we all know that
a person who cheats at golf can't be trusted. If that doesn't matter
to you then that's childish.
Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net>: Aug 11 01:37PM -0700


> in fact it does affect us because he's the POTUS and we all know that
> a person who cheats at golf can't be trusted. If that doesn't matter
> to you then that's childish.
 
Isn't it amazing how the very sort of people who will tell you that
playing golf with someone is an excellent examination of their character
are now trying to avoid what character Trump reveals?
BK@Onramp.net: Aug 11 03:42PM -0500

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 13:28:51 -0700, Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net>
wrote:
 
 
>> thrown out of office because he doesn't support your agendas.
 
>Trump won less than 50% of the PEOPLE, David.
 
>But then I guess people aren't important to you.
He has you kill filed so I'm answering so he'll see this.
David has problems.
David Laville <dlaville@bellsouth.net>: Aug 11 03:21PM -0500

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 15:02:19 -0500 (CDT), Moderate
 
>More therapy.
 
>https://tinyurl.com/y8vu8nbg
 
>Kim shut off communication with Obama. Kim knew Obama was an amateur.
 
Kim Jong-un is only testing the water to see if he's dealing with
another Obama. It's estimated North Korea has 13-30 nuclear warheads
and is working on a way to deliver them. The United States has 6,800
of which 1,800 is ready to be deployed on command with GPS accuracy.
 
Kim Jong-un knows the fate of his country if he does something stupid.
David Laville <dlaville@bellsouth.net>: Aug 11 03:21PM -0500

On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 04:35:05 -0000 (UTC), "DumbedDownUSA"
 
>You don't need to know the solution to know that Trump humiliating the
>US and NK is not it.
 
Another liberal imbecile. Let me see if I understand your asinine
liberal logic;
 
North Korea started this shit with missile test and threatening to
shoot missiles at Guam. Not a word from you snowflakes.
 
Trump threatens to respond with fire and fury if they do and he's the
one you consider dangerous with a nuclear weapon and humiliating the
U.S.?
 
This is what happens when you're an idiot drone who repeats what your
left wing religion tells you to repeat. Sorry snowflake but your
ignorance and childish thought process is what's humiliating to the
U.S.
David Laville <dlaville@bellsouth.net>: Aug 11 03:22PM -0500

On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 06:54:14 -0700 (PDT), "John B."
 
>> Apparently you don't remember the red line, which led to a 2nd chemical attack. Fortunately we don't have an an empty suit POTUS this time around.
 
>No, we have a dangerous, unhinged idiot.

What logic! Kim Jong-un threatens to shoot unprovoked missiles at a
U.S. territory but Trump is the dangerous, unhinged idiot.
 
Obviously stupidity is a prerequisite for liberalism.
David Laville <dlaville@bellsouth.net>: Aug 11 03:22PM -0500


>>Tell us what butt buddy means to you. Elaborate as much as you like.
 
>Simple. Good friends or admiration. Do you actually think that I
>could put Greg and Trump into any other situation? Nutso!!

So in public, do you introduce your good friends as your "butt buddy"?
 
Just curious.
BK@Onramp.net: Aug 11 03:27PM -0500

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 15:02:19 -0500 (CDT), Moderate
 
>More therapy.
 
>https://tinyurl.com/y8vu8nbg
 
>Kim shut off communication with Obama. Kim knew Obama was an amateur.
Does that mean hat you think Kim is a professional? You're a fucking
idiot. Kim and Trump are the same, megalomaniacs. They aren't
communicating at all.
Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net>: Aug 11 01:33PM -0700

On 2017-08-11 1:21 PM, David Laville wrote:
> liberal logic;
 
> North Korea started this shit with missile test and threatening to
> shoot missiles at Guam. Not a word from you snowflakes.
 
No. Trump was popping off on North Korea long before they threatened Guam.
 
 
> Trump threatens to respond with fire and fury if they do and he's the
> one you consider dangerous with a nuclear weapon and humiliating the
> U.S.?
 
You have your events out of order.
 
Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net>: Aug 11 01:35PM -0700

On 2017-08-11 1:02 PM, Moderate wrote:
 
> More therapy.
 
> https://tinyurl.com/y8vu8nbg
 
> Kim shut off communication with Obama. Kim knew Obama was an amateur.
 
So then according to your "analysis" we can shortly expect NK to shut
off communication again...
Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net>: Aug 11 01:35PM -0700

On 2017-08-11 1:21 PM, David Laville wrote:
> and is working on a way to deliver them. The United States has 6,800
> of which 1,800 is ready to be deployed on command with GPS accuracy.
 
> Kim Jong-un knows the fate of his country if he does something stupid.
 
And what of the fate of us all if the guidance system on just ONE
missile results in it hitting... ...China?
Alan Baker <alangbaker@telus.net>: Aug 11 01:36PM -0700

On 2017-08-11 1:22 PM, David Laville wrote:
 
>> No, we have a dangerous, unhinged idiot.
 
> What logic! Kim Jong-un threatens to shoot unprovoked missiles at a
> U.S. territory but Trump is the dangerous, unhinged idiot.
 
Jong-un did that AFTER Trump started threatening North Korea...
 
BK@Onramp.net: Aug 11 03:38PM -0500

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 15:22:07 -0500, David Laville
 
>>No, we have a dangerous, unhinged idiot.
 
>What logic! Kim Jong-un threatens to shoot unprovoked missiles at a
>U.S. territory but Trump is the dangerous, unhinged idiot.
 
They're both dangerous unhinged idiots.
 
>Obviously stupidity is a prerequisite for liberalism.
What's the prerequisite for your idiocy?
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