Digest for alt.sports.hockey.nhl.mtl-canadiens@googlegroups.com - 14 updates in 2 topics

Friday, July 7, 2017

Mike <mike@gmail.com>: Jul 07 08:46AM -0300

On 2017-07-07 12:59 AM, Marty wrote:
> couldn't have known exactly, but man, he did have a surprising amount left
> in the tank. Apparently, he wanted to come here then. Sure missed the boat.
 
> Marty
 
No question Jagr should have been on this team 5 or 6 years ago. There
were many times when Plekanec was rumored to be pushing the Habs to sign
him and it would have been very beneficial to the Habs to do so. Now
though? I'm not so sure. Maybe its time to give a kid like Hudon his
chance. See what he can produce.
Nyssa <Nyssa@flawlesslogic.com>: Jul 07 08:16AM -0400

Marty wrote:
 
> have a surprising amount left in the tank. Apparently, he
> wanted to come here then. Sure missed the boat.
 
> Marty
 
If it comes down to signing either Iginla or Jagr, I'd say
go for Iggy. I think Iginla would be more useful in more
spots than Jagr during the regular season, and we already
know he goes into full bore in the playoffs which would be
a Good Thing (assuming we make the playoffs again with the
current roster holes).
 
Either one will be in the Hall of Fame and would be nice to
have their final season in a Habs sweater, but for all-round
usefulness, Ignila would be my pick.
 
Nyssa, who would not mind Jagr breaking a scoring record while
a Hab however
Chuck <barberphoto411@gmail.com>: Jul 07 06:19AM -0700

I think the cap space is tied to potential Galchenyuk trades. That MB would be willing to trade Galchenyuk for a veteran early 30s center with a hefty cap hit. Like Eric Staal. MB doesn't want potential in return. In any player who may fail next season. He wants another Weber for PK deal where immediate fail is unlikely. But is willing to take an older player that may result in any risk showing up 4 or 5 years from now, as the acquired player gets hit by age and the traded player is still prime. I think this is why MB is sitting on unused cap space, as well as holding off giving in to Markov.
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jul 07 06:26AM -0700

I would pass on both Jagr and Iginla at this point. Hudon is a better player than either of them.
 
I mean, if I thought they might actually not be afraid to just jettison some other scrub like Martinsen and therefore not risk losing Hudon on waivers, then great. But. I do expect they'd just blindly keep their big bottom line grinder instead, and waive Hudon instead, soooo... to me, adding another forward at this point probably means you lose Hudon.
 
Adding players who are 40 or 45 years old and could at best be expected to get maybe 10 goals, that's not a direction I'd take. If you ever actually gave a young player that icetime and role, they'd do even better.
 
l8r,
Gerry
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jul 07 06:34AM -0700

I would agree that the cap space is indeed more likely to be used in a trade than in another UFA signing. And indeed, Galchenyuk-for-a-center is still a probable direction.
 
With Markov, I assume the holdup isn't on the Habs side anymore, they have their offer out there, but Markov is acting as his own agent and is just busy with other things (e.g. wedding, honeymoon). When Markov chooses to turn his attention back to his contract (which who knows, could be a month from now) then I would expect they'll quickly come to an agreement, assuming the space is still there. And since there is simply no other player close to Markov on the market, I would think Bergevin would have to fall prey to a real fit of impatience to move ahead and fill the spot by signing some lesser option on D first.
 
l8r,
Gerry
Chuck <barberphoto411@gmail.com>: Jul 07 06:38AM -0700

Are there any teams which could be pushed into cap problems by arbitration awards? One of those teams might consider roster moves. Otherwise the UFA frenzy has been exhausted of any impact signings
Marty <martytest2004@hotmail.com>: Jul 07 08:23PM -0500

(Pre-script: I think the Markov situation is irrelevant to this
discussion, as there is more than enough money for both.)
 
Well, I have read others comments, but I still think people undersold
Jagr's production, and his ability to help the team where it needs it.
Scoring. Right now, at forward the limited moves have been mostly
sideways. Radulov out Drouin in. Add Jagr, and you have added something
new, something extra. He is mostly a playmaker now, but the Hab's can use
those. They have lots of dummies that can skate straight and shoot. Jagr
can rag the puck and dish it to the right place. He might even be able to
show Galchenyuk how to do it right.
 
That said, I wasn't factoring in waiver protections, but sure, if Hudon
needs protection, then do a handshake deal and sign Jagr after waiver
draft. Or trade someone first. Whatever. When I suggest acquiring a
player, I do suggest it with the unspoken notion that other plans will be
put in place to make it work without losing a significant asset, and
surely that can be done in this case with a little work.
 
Back to Jagr. I looked at an analysis of Jagr's production last year
compared to generic 1st line player. He was only slightly less in goal
production but it matched his slightly lower icetime. Other stats were
well above average, first assist being prominent, even with the low
icetime.
 
https://tinyurl.com/yb6momqg
 
Anyway, I know Jagr's not the future, but he can be a placeholder. He can
show a few players a few tricks, and hell, with him in the line-up, they
MAY remain a dark horse shot at a long play-off run. He also doesn't
displace Hudon if the GM makes a few sensible decisions (handshake deal,
trade a scrub, whatever). He can offer Jagr a weirdly large amount of
money on a 1-year deal because space is there. Unless some wild trade is
in the works, this is a smart, sensible deal waiting to happen. It really
is far preferable to current status. Unless there are better, unknown
options in the works, signing Jagr is a good deal. As long as a decent
prospect like Hudon can be kept too, it is all doable. There is space for
both, easily.
 
Marty
Nyssa <Nyssa@flawlesslogic.com>: Jul 07 08:08AM -0400

TheMadApe wrote:
 
> along side his butt buddy.
 
> Postive thoughts! Right?
 
> TMA
 
Doesn't Draisadtl have another year left on his EL contract?
I thought the Oilers re-signed McDavid with a year remaining
on his, so Draisadtl should be in the same position.
 
So BBB would have to wait until *next* year if he were
foolish enough to try the offer sheet bit.
 
Which he shouldn't do anyway. But we *are* talking about
MB and his odd way of doing business, so anything is possible.
 
Nyssa, who is at the point where almost nothing could shock
her as far as MB is concerned
Nyssa <Nyssa@flawlesslogic.com>: Jul 07 08:10AM -0400

Gerry wrote:
 
> last-minute help to try to squeeze into the playoffs. :(
 
> l8r,
> Gerry
 
Yeah, they might squeeze in with a last-minute blockbuster
deal for a rental, but then crash and burn immediately in
the first round, probably in a sweep or five at the most.
 
Hmmm, not much different outcome than what's already happened.
 
Nyssa, who will not be planning a parade route any time soon
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jul 07 06:16AM -0700

They (most would say foolishly) used Draisatl for half a year before sending him back to junior in 2014-15, so he's actually used up his whole ELC already and is in fact a restricted free agent now.
 
After decades (!!now *decades*!!) of searching, I would not let the unwritten rule of offer sheets get in my way here, jeez. There is a bona fide BIG, YOUNG, #1 center right there. It costs 4 1sts, a truck load of money, and the eternal enmity of Peter Chiarelli. I think that's a reasonable price to pay. :)
 
At this point, however, to properly scare the Oilers away from matching, the Habs would also have to find a way to dispose of some other contract. The existing $9M in cap space won't cut it to scare off the Oilers. They'll need at least $12M to even have a small chance. So they'd need to find a way to clear some other salary off the books as well (e.g. trade Plekanec and retain $3M of his salary).
 
And then they'd have to be smart on contracts forever after with Price, Draisatl, and Weber combining for $30M on the cap!
 
Sooo... it's still a risky proposition. But I'd boldly go there.
 
l8r,
Gerry
Nyssa <Nyssa@flawlesslogic.com>: Jul 07 09:56AM -0400

Gerry wrote:
 
> there.
 
> l8r,
> Gerry
 
Okay, I had forgotten about the burnt year of his EL contract.
 
And he's German, which is a big plus in my book. (Gotta stick
up for fellow Germanics, ya know.)
 
So give it a try. If nothing else, it'll saddle the Oilers
with a huge matching problem like Philly did to the Preds
over Weber. Now we've got him. Ha!
 
But we are talking about MB, not the boldest GM in the field.
 
Now if we were talking about Foghorn...errr...Brian Burke,
no doubt the ink would already be drying on that offer sheet.
 
Nyssa, who would love to add another pet to the team
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jul 07 07:21AM -0700

A Drouin-Draisatl-Galchenyuk line would be pretty exciting.
 
I'm not going to hold my breath. :)
 
l8r,
Gerry
Mike <mike@gmail.com>: Jul 07 11:29AM -0300

On 2017-07-07 10:56 AM, Nyssa wrote:
 
> Now if we were talking about Foghorn...errr...Brian Burke,
> no doubt the ink would already be drying on that offer sheet.
 
> Nyssa, who would love to add another pet to the team
 
I too would boldly tender an offer sheet but all this talk is for
naught. No way Bergy is pulling that stunt given his propensity to be a
founding member of our Foxhole Gang. He's not going to put himself on
the outs with the GM's in the league by pulling that stunt. Mind you, he
should. He's got the cap space and he's been whining about how hard it
is to land a centre - well here ya go buddy. Here's your chance.
 
Now, what he could try to do is talk trade with Edmonton. We've got a
great leader here, a perennial 35+ goal scorer in Max Pacioretty. Locked
in for 2 more years @4.5M. Imagine him on McDavid's wing? I'd offer him
up along with a first round pick and Lindberg. I'd sell it as a very
fair trade to Edmonton and as a way of avoiding an offer sheet. If they
turn it down, then I'm offer sheeting him @10M and buying out whoever I
need to buyout to make it happen.
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jul 07 07:58AM -0700

I honestly don't think there is any trade the Habs could make that would cause the Oilers to blink. There are no 3 players/assets anywhere on the roster or in the system they would take for Draisatl. That's their Crosby/Malkin power duo at stake.
 
I also think they would match a 7-year $12Mper offer. Even if you made it lockout-proof and NTC/NMC to the max. Load it up however you want, the Oilers *still* probably match.
 
But just in case they didn't... it couldn't hurt to offer. Draisatl's camp ought to be very open to signing such an offer sheet. It's a lot more than the Oilers seem to be offering atm.
 
Bear in mind the Habs can't do any buyouts. They have no arbitration cases, and the regular window closed June 30th. They would have to cut the requisite salary with a separate trade (perhaps while retaining salary, eg. to make Plekanec more palatable, etc). So it's not something that is easy or automatic to do. But I'd still go ahead and sign myself up for that challenge if I was in Bergevin's shoes. The challenge of getting a big, young, #1 center seems to be the biggest challenge, dwarfing all others.
 
l8r,
Gerry
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