Digest for alt.sports.hockey.nhl.mtl-canadiens@googlegroups.com - 23 updates in 3 topics

Monday, July 3, 2017

John Corbin <johnhabsfan@gmail.com>: Jul 03 10:26AM -0700

http://www.tsn.ca/stars-ink-radulov-to-five-year-31-25m-deal-1.795468
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jul 03 10:34AM -0700

On Monday, July 3, 2017 at 1:26:26 PM UTC-4, John Corbin wrote:
> http://www.tsn.ca/stars-ink-radulov-to-five-year-31-25m-deal-1.795468
 
It will be interesting to see the breakdown and clauses on that deal. Because I'd have been ready to pay Radulov 5x$6.25M.
 
Of course, $6.25M in Texas is $7M in Quebec, so there's that.
 
I wouldn't have paid Radulov $7M a year with 5-years full NTC and NMC, for example.
 
But the Dallas deal at least sounds like it got real close to what I would have been willing to consider for Radulov. I wonder how far off that the Habs were with their offer? They sure seemed pretty far off in terms of showing respect to either Markov or Radulov. Bergevin didn't do a good job talking about these deals. I understand he was frustrated, but he should have been a little more circumspect with some of his comments.
 
l8r,
Gerry
TheMadApe <chiefape@gmail.com>: Jul 03 03:26PM -0300

On 2017-07-03 02:34 PM, Gerry wrote:
 
> But the Dallas deal at least sounds like it got real close to what I would have been willing to consider for Radulov. I wonder how far off that the Habs were with their offer? They sure seemed pretty far off in terms of showing respect to either Markov or Radulov. Bergevin didn't do a good job talking about these deals. I understand he was frustrated, but he should have been a little more circumspect with some of his comments.
 
> l8r,
> Gerry
 
I am thinking that Radulov got pissed at Bergevin because the deal he
signed for in Dallas is the exact same deal that Montreal offered but
Radulov insisted on 7 years right up to the end.
 
Bergevin running his mouth of in the media is what caused this breakup.
He does not have the skill necessary to be a successful GM. he needs to
go before more damage is done.
 
With Benn and Seguin, Radulov fits in nicely. Good things will happen there.
 
TMA
Ed <ed.matthews@gmail.com>: Jul 03 11:50AM -0700

I realize this leaves another hole to fill and he was effective last year, most of the time but is that really the price of a 31 year old who had 54 points last season?
 
It's not an insane contract but I really think Dallas will(should) regret this one before too long.
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jul 03 12:45PM -0700

Heck, that was apparently the price of a 37-year old who got 46 pts last year too. (Marleau)
 
Anyway, it's true Dallas might regret it in the future. But Habs regret it right now.
 
I'd say Radulov looked better than an 18-goal 54 pt forward from what I saw of him, though. It seemed like he lost some energy after the middle of the season... whether that was due to being in "KHL condition" or whether distracted by his personal issues... either way, I can imagine those issues not being a factor going forward. IMHO he was better than Pacioretty who got 35 goals and 67 pts. I could imagine him pushing a point-per-game pace with Benn and Seguin.
 
I mean, who really knows, any player can suddenly drop off or lose it, or get hurt or whatnot. But based on the calibre of play I've seen from Radulov, I don't think $6.25M is remotely unreasonable in the modern market. Somewhere in a 5-year term is always going to be a risk, for anybody, and if he's considered a little riskier than most due to his past, well, he could also look like a bit of a bargain if he truly hits it off with all those Stars in Dallas.
 
l8r,
Gerry
TheMadApe <chiefape@gmail.com>: Jul 03 05:06PM -0300

On 2017-07-03 04:45 PM, Gerry wrote:
 
> I mean, who really knows, any player can suddenly drop off or lose it, or get hurt or whatnot. But based on the calibre of play I've seen from Radulov, I don't think $6.25M is remotely unreasonable in the modern market. Somewhere in a 5-year term is always going to be a risk, for anybody, and if he's considered a little riskier than most due to his past, well, he could also look like a bit of a bargain if he truly hits it off with all those Stars in Dallas.
 
> l8r,
> Gerry
 
He is a better fit in Dallas and will yield better production at least
in the short term.
 
TMA
Mike <mike@gmail.com>: Jul 03 05:48PM -0300

On 2017-07-03 05:06 PM, TheMadApe wrote:
 
> He is a better fit in Dallas and will yield better production at least
> in the short term.
 
> TMA
What we're witnessing here is the first signs of the death throes in
Montreal. Remember how not too long ago nobody wanted to go to Toronto?
Now you hear all sorts of talk about how Toronto is a good market. Why?
Simple. Good players bring in good players. Montreal was in that spot
not too long ago. Within no more than 2-3 years max, this place is going
to be the Koivu years all over again. Missed playoffs, the odd little
surprise but for the most part a mediocre team managed by a mediocre GM
and run by an owner just interested in getting his investment.
 
With Radulov gone, this team now is sliding backwards and not
progressing forward.
 
You're doing a heckuva job Brownie!
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jul 03 03:45PM -0700

I suppose it will always remain he-said/he-said, but I hear Radulov claimed the Habs did change their offer at the last minute to try to keep him. The implication is that the Habs were at 4 years and maybe a shade under in price, but (fully despite Bergevin's claim that the final offer was final and there'd be no more negotiation) the Habs came back to match the Stars deal in the end. But Radulov had already given his verbal commit to Dallas.
 
If it was true, I think it's a bad sign. You play hardball, take a certain stance with a player, throw stuff around in the media, backtrack at the last minute, and then he goes to another team for the same money? Feels like they could have handled this a whole lot better and kept the player.
 
So anyway, Drouin sort of replaces Radulov. In terms of total offense, maybe. A much different type of offense, no leaning on guys in the corners or muscling through checkers, and all that. Totally different styles. But possibly about the same production. However, they also gave up their best trade chip in Sergachev, effectively for nothing. That's potentially a pretty big gaffe. Of course, it's always possible that Radulov will slack off in Dallas and Sergachev won't pan out, but... I wouldn't put good odds on that.
 
One saving grace for the Habs might still be that they play in the Atlantic, which probably only places 3 teams in the playoffs next season.
 
I hope Markov makes his decision soon, it'd be nice to know the final damage. I was trying to think of what teams could be suitors for him. Toronto shows a full cap now, but have Lupul and Horton to LTIR and might be able to squeeze him in, though it's doubtful. Ottawa presumably has a great big gaping spot for him to step into, but maybe not the ca$h. I'm not sure he's a guy that cares about Stanley Cups... but it would be kind of hilarious to see him sign for like $2M with a contender after all the chasing of the $$$.
 
l8r,
Gerry
gorgofromns@gmail.com: Jul 03 04:50PM -0700

I'm so disappointed. I will miss Radu big time and so will the Habs. There is absolutely no guarantee that Drouin will even replace Radu's production yet alone surpass it. Drouin has yet to prove himself as a NHL regular let alone a star. Hasn't yet, that's for sure. He's made some highlight plays but IMO, hasn't made enough of them. He could prove to be a premadonna, a defensive liability and get plopped in the doghouse and relegated to PP duty. Radu, on the other hand, IMO is much better than his point total. I'd say he carried MaxPac and when MaxPac disappeared for multi game stretches and also in the playoffs, Radu kept going. His points would have been much better if he played with a true centre and a Galchenyuk that actually had some confidence. I can see Radu piling them up as Benn and Sequin fill the nets off of Radu's sweet feeds. And to top it off, not only was Radu good, he looked good doing it and was by far the most entertaining player to watch on the Habs roster. This is a dark day to be a Habs fan IMO.
Mike <mike@gmail.com>: Jul 03 01:06PM -0300

Habs sign Hemsky to a 1 year deal. Gotta wonder if there isn't some
credence to the Anisimov rumour now.
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jul 03 10:28AM -0700

On Monday, July 3, 2017 at 12:06:42 PM UTC-4, Mike wrote:
> Habs sign Hemsky to a 1 year deal. Gotta wonder if there isn't some
> credence to the Anisimov rumour now.
 
He's not bad at bargain binning, that's for sure. $1M to Hemsky is an entirely fine dive into the dumpster. Hemsky was hurt last year, but he's a bit younger and probably a bit better at this point than the famous ancient guys like Jagr, Doan, Iginla.
 
I don't mind the Hemsky signing as a bandaid on the gaping wound of failure to re-sign Radulov.
 
Although it would be nice if one day they just showed faith in their young players. Hudon might be even better than Hemsky at this point. But we'll probably never know, and he'll probably end up lost on waivers or something.
 
l8r,
Gerry
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jul 03 11:04AM -0700

They might want to check out Vegas' asking price on James Neal as well. They've been selling off those D surprisingly cheap. If there was any chance that Neal could get into that category too, Habs should be in on it.
 
Or maybe go back to the Kovalchuk angle.
 
Or maybe this is all just a waste of time at this point. :)
 
l8r,
Gerry
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jul 03 04:03AM -0700

So I heard Bergevin's press conference yesterday. Just to fact check a little, here's where the roster stands today:

Drouin ($5.5M) - Galchenyuk (??RFA??) - xxxx
Pacioretty ($4.5M) - Danault ($0.9125M) - Gallagher ($3.75M)
Lehkonen ($0.839167M) - Plekanec ($6M) - Byron ($1.167M)
Martinsen ($0.675M) - Mitchell ($1.2M) - Shaw ($3.9M)
De La Rose ($0.725M)
 
xxxx - Weber ($7.857M)
Alzner ($4.625M) - Petry ($5.5M)
Schlemko ($2.1M) - Benn ($1.1M)
Jerabek ($0.925M) - Davidson ($1.425M)

Price ($6.5M)
Montoya ($1.0625M)
 
Total: $60.26M
(Cap is confirmed now at $75M)
 
So basically they have $15M to deal with Radulov, Markov, Galchenyuk. Given what they signed Drouin for, I don't see how they would pay Galchenyuk less than Drouin.
 
Bring them all back price:
Galchenyuk ~$5M - bridge or long term
Markov ~$4M for 2 years
Radulov ~$5.5M for 6 years
 
I think in this scenario you have to give in to the 2 years request from Markov. But he has to take less money to make up for it. Likewise, in order to bring them all back, you'll have to get creative with term on Radulov's contract. A front-loaded breakdown like 7-7-6-5-4-4 would give term and reduce the cap hit sufficiently. I don't even know if shorter or longer term would appeal more to Galchenyuk.
 
But it sure doesn't sound like all 3 of these guys can be sold on coming back at these prices.
 
So it's more likely the team has to let either Markov or Radulov go at this point.
 
Bergevin sounds really frustrated by this. There aren't really any fallback options. Up front, you can slot Lehkonen into a bigger role and bring in Hudon. Or go bargain binning on the UFA market where there are those crusty vets like Iginla or Jagr, maybe. On D, there are a variety of leftovers, Beauchemins and Fransons and whatnot, nothing that will really help. The slots can still be filled, but not in any way that helps the team improve.
 
l8r,
Gerry
Mike <mike@gmail.com>: Jul 03 09:53AM -0300

On 2017-07-03 08:03 AM, Gerry wrote:
 
> Bergevin sounds really frustrated by this. There aren't really any fallback options. Up front, you can slot Lehkonen into a bigger role and bring in Hudon. Or go bargain binning on the UFA market where there are those crusty vets like Iginla or Jagr, maybe. On D, there are a variety of leftovers, Beauchemins and Fransons and whatnot, nothing that will really help. The slots can still be filled, but not in any way that helps the team improve.
 
> l8r,
> Gerry
 
Good post Gerry. As you suggest, the slots will indeed be filled but,
like you, I don't see how this team will improve and I'm actually
shocked that Price signed his extension. The team assembled in front of
him gets more questionable as the years pass under Bergevin's tenure.
Last year the team struggled to score goals and unless Bergevin pulls
something out of his sleeve or some other orifice, that need will go
unmet. Last year and for the 4 previous years of Bergevin's tenure the
team has needed a #1 centre. That's still a gaping hole that will go
unfilled. Starting last year the team needed a legitimate #2 centre and
like the two previous holes this one will still be a hole in October.
Lastly, there was nobody to play as a legitimate #2 defenceman alongside
Shea Weber and in October the team will still have a huge question mark
in that regard. The only "need" that Bergevin seems to have addressed is
the need for more French talent and that need is dubious at best. It
addresses a need as far as the press goes and he did bring in a
legitimate first line player but the team has lost an equally viable
talent in Alex Radulov while ticking off Galchenyuk who now will likely
go to arbitration.
 
The team is no better than it was last year and I'll be surprised if it
gets any better. I would have thought Carey Price would have waited to
see how the year panned out before committing himself to what appears to
me to be a team that will jump on his shoulders and ride the Carey Price
bus until its outta gas. Carey Price has locked himself into 8 years of
mediocrity and I'm gobsmacked that he did.
 
At the start of last year I said that this team was a bubble team that
will go as far as Carey Price will take them. Unless Radulov comes into
the picture (and at this point I'm sure Bergevin's presser put the final
nail in that coffin) this team is just going to muddle along in the same
direction.
 
As a long time Habs fan, last year was the first year that I had
minimized my expectations for this team. I've always had that optimistic
outlook (some might say rose colored glasses even) but Bergevin's
inability to bring in talent, hold on to young talent, pick the right
coaches has pretty much driven out the last remaining bit of optimism I
have for this team. They're a bubble team that is only a Carey Price
injury away from missing the playoffs. They'll likely make the playoffs
most years and Price may even steal a series, maybe two but the same old
warts (lack of scoring, no centre, no puck moving D) will eventually
doom this team to NHL purgatory.
 
I'll continue to watch but, like last year, I won't watch as much and I
won't expect much. Maybe in that regard this is where Bergevin has seen
his success. He's tempered the fan's enthusiasm and brought us back to
reality. No longer will the team be invited to camp with the stated goal
to win the Stanley Cup. Success will be measured against making the
playoffs. Because after all, its sooooo hard to get a #1 centre and
build a team in the cap era. Must be nice to have a job where you can
lament how hard it is to do what you are expected to do. Maybe in
another life I'll get lucky and land a gig like that.
Chuck <barberphoto411@gmail.com>: Jul 03 06:18AM -0700

Galchenyuk is still capable of scoring more goals then Danault, Plekanec and Mitchell combined. Danault still has potential but if his stats do not grow is a 3rd liner. Plekanec disappeared for a whole season. Mitchell disappeared after a quarter of the season. Between Plekanec and Mitchell there is 7 million worth of cap space that if moved would free up space to assure Radulov signing and enough for one year solutions to cover the loss of Pleks and Mitchell
Chuck <barberphoto411@gmail.com>: Jul 03 08:38AM -0700

Ekfraud is claiming Chicago has offered Anisomov for Galchenyuk. Not enough! Anisomov is not the center Montreal needs. Almost 7 years older, always struggling to reach 20 goals and or 20 assists. Galchenyuk on Chicago would have little problems hitting 30 goals again and 35+ assists. While Montreal is left again with 1 center who at best might match Galchenyuk's points from the past season backed up by three centers whose efforts to exceed 10 goals will be a struggle
Mike <mike@gmail.com>: Jul 03 01:05PM -0300

On 2017-07-03 12:38 PM, Chuck wrote:
> Ekfraud is claiming Chicago has offered Anisomov for Galchenyuk. Not enough! Anisomov is not the center Montreal needs. Almost 7 years older, always struggling to reach 20 goals and or 20 assists. Galchenyuk on Chicago would have little problems hitting 30 goals again and 35+ assists. While Montreal is left again with 1 center who at best might match Galchenyuk's points from the past season backed up by three centers whose efforts to exceed 10 goals will be a struggle
 
Agreed. Not even close to enough. I don't know enough about Chicago's
prospects but if they had a grade A centreman in the AHL or a very
promising youngster then maybe. Never straight up.
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jul 03 10:23AM -0700

On Monday, July 3, 2017 at 12:05:21 PM UTC-4, Mike wrote:
> Agreed. Not even close to enough. I don't know enough about Chicago's
> prospects but if they had a grade A centreman in the AHL or a very
> promising youngster then maybe. Never straight up.
 
I can totally imagine the Habs preferring Anisimov to Galchenyuk. He'd do that deal in a microsecond and strut around like a peacock claiming that he had landed that Big #1 Center every team covets. They're hard to find, dontcha know.
 
I think the Hawks just edged themselves below the cap at long last yesterday with their Kruger trade. So they'd have to be confident they could sign Galchenyuk for around the same as Anisimov's $4.55M if they were going to make that trade. And they'd have to be thinking of using Galchenyuk at center too, since they don't have a lot of others.
 
So frankly, I think the Habs would be all over this, but the Hawks might be forced to balk.
 
l8r,
Gerry
Chuck <barberphoto411@gmail.com>: Jul 03 10:36AM -0700

Trade would leave the team with no 1st or 2nd line centers with any playmaking skills. Might see more face off wins but nothing else
John Corbin <johnhabsfan@gmail.com>: Jul 03 10:39AM -0700

Especially now that Radulov is out of the picture
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jul 03 10:40AM -0700

On Monday, July 3, 2017 at 1:36:30 PM UTC-4, Chuck wrote:
> Trade would leave the team with no 1st or 2nd line centers with any
> playmaking skills. Might see more face off wins but nothing else
 
On the bright side, Galchenyuk would be doing the Braveheart "FREEEEEDOM!" shout. That's about all I'm cheering for now. Let the poor lad go, Bergy, for his sake.
 
l8r,
Gerry
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jul 03 10:49AM -0700

On Monday, July 3, 2017 at 8:53:35 AM UTC-4, Mike wrote:
>... and I'm actually
> shocked that Price signed his extension.
 
That part isn't so shocking to me. When there is $84M on the table in front of you, I think it makes a lot of sense to take it. You never know when that next injury comes, or what the numbers are going to be next year.
 
l8r,
Gerry
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jul 03 10:52AM -0700

On Monday, July 3, 2017 at 1:39:13 PM UTC-4, John Corbin wrote:
> Especially now that Radulov is out of the picture
 
I'm not maybe as upset about losing Radulov in terms of personal attachment - I didn't watch a lot of Habs games last year, so even while I recognize his impact and how losing him hurts the team, it's no skin off my back.
 
But I think it would be really painful to lose Markov too at this point. Although in a dark humour kind of way, it would serve Bergevin right and be a little bit funny. Nevertheless, Markov has been a fixture for so long, was nearing so many great lifetime records, and it would have been really nice to see him retire as a lifelong Hab.
 
l8r,
Gerry
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