Digest for alt.sports.hockey.nhl.mtl-canadiens@googlegroups.com - 11 updates in 3 topics

Sunday, July 2, 2017

John Corbin <johnhabsfan@gmail.com>: Jul 02 11:38AM -0700

Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jul 02 11:55AM -0700

On Sunday, July 2, 2017 at 2:38:32 PM UTC-4, John Corbin wrote:
> https://www.nhl.com/canadiens/news/canadiens-sign-carey-price-to-an-eight-year-contract-extension/c-290273598
Well, they made him The Franchise, and now they put their money on it too. Once they get the rest of the signings filed away, it will be interesting to see what the cap projection for next season looks like.
Obviously you can't not sign Price, and I don't think $10.5M is unfair. He's $1M better than Lundqvist, is he $2M better? Well, it is perhaps a reasonable progression/inflation from a deal that was signed 4 years ago for Lundqvist.
Whether it was $9M, $10M, or $11M, the GM ought not to be crippled by a $2M overpayment or underpayment. So I don't buy the argument that this is "too much" for Price, or that it will prevent the Habs from competing in the future. Could they compete with Price at $9M? Of course. Could they compete without Price? Fat chance.
Now that said, when you have a $10.5M cap hit on a player, you are going to have to have some good bargains elsewhere. The Habs are terrible at integrating young talent quickly, they aren't a good bet to get good value out of players on ELCs. They have some other extravagant and inefficient contracts. Plekanec will be gone. But others like Shaw and Petry will remain, Alzner could get into that group, etc. Plus they are already in the hole by a couple top centers. Not having cap space to burn on them will make it a challenge.
They probably won't be able to get good enough to win a championship, and won't be bad enough to get a high-end superstar who contributes big time on an ELC.
But I don't think this is anything different than what I expected.
There ought to be value in having it DONE!, and not serve as a distraction in the coming season.
Chuck <barberphoto411@gmail.com>: Jul 02 12:39PM -0700

On Sunday, July 2, 2017 at 2:55:57 PM UTC-4, Gerry wrote:
> There ought to be value in having it DONE!, and not serve as a distraction in the coming season.
> l8r,
> Gerry
Too bad they couldn't get rid of Pleks sooner then later, his cap space is more valuable then he is.
John Corbin <johnhabsfan@gmail.com>: Jul 02 01:29PM -0700

by keeping Price, are they still somewhat in denial that they have big problems still before we see a cup in Montreal?
Chuck <barberphoto411@gmail.com>: Jul 02 01:53PM -0700

On Sunday, July 2, 2017 at 4:29:48 PM UTC-4, John Corbin wrote:
> by keeping Price, are they still somewhat in denial that they have big problems still before we see a cup in Montreal?
As long as there is a Cap, there will always be problems. One fix will be, if they could get their development system to start coughing up more RFAs, along with their entry level / bridge contracts to push under producing / cap chewing veterans such as Pleks from the lineup. These players are the key to keeping a team in contention. Players who would have to be traded because of their pending cap hits, players the team is sorry to see go, players who have trading value as opposed to expensive veterans who need to be moved because they no longer produce at the level they are paid at
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jul 02 02:44PM -0700

Cap problems *are* manageable. You could take Carey Price on a $10.5M contract, and drop him onto Nashville, and Nashville would be fine. They will have around $5M of cap space this summer even if they pay Johansen $8M. And they have Subban at $9M.
How could Nashville be contenders with $27.5M on 3 players?
It all comes from within. They didn't screw around with bridge contracts on some key guys. They put term on Ellis, Josi and Ekholm when they had the chance, and now they have the best D in the league, at an enormous bargain. 3 players they drafted themselves, btw. 5 years to Ellis, 6 to Ekholm, 7 years to Josi... BEFORE everybody recognized they were the best D in the league.
They actually set up roster spots for their young guys to move into. All up and down the lineup... Arvidsson, Aberg, Watson, Sissons, Gaudreau, Fiala, all these names from the playoff run are developed internally and when they are ready, they get a real chance.
There's room for a mistake here and there, there's also room to pay guys when you absolutely have to. They'll have to pay Johansen now. But the rest of their payroll is set up that this is not remotely a problem.
Eventually it catches up, of course. Well, I assume it will. They haven't actually won anything yet. But anyway, the point is you CAN have a contending team and have room to pay a player $10.5M, or 3 players near $30M.
Just you have to make up for it elsewhere, with astute signings and a lot of success developing and promoting players from within.
And of course, it probably takes a fair bit of discipline to stick to this. Like us, we're clamouring for Radulov, so desperate, etc, but he's a risky player, and when you're that desperate you can get into trouble. Habs seem to get themselves into trouble all the time, not knowing when to pass on a player (Petry), keeping players past their prime (Plekanec), overpaying role players (Shaw), because they either don't have the internal options, or perceive that they don't, and it becomes a snowball rolling down the mountain.
Mike <mike@gmail.com>: Jul 02 08:51PM -0300

On 2017-07-02 03:55 PM, Gerry wrote:
> There ought to be value in having it DONE!, and not serve as a distraction in the coming season.
> l8r,
> Gerry
8 years of mediocrity coming right up! And that's not a knock on Price
either, its just cold reality. Price will almost guarantee the team will
make the playoffs probably 6 of the 8 years (barring injury). With the
group of players our Dollar Store GM has put in front of him, if this
team wins a cup it will be because Carey Price has 16 wins in the
playoffs with a GAA of around 1.75. Anything higher than that and we'll
be looking at a string of first round exits, near misses in the second
round and missed playoffs by 4-6 points. There are no good prospects in
the pipe, there will be no Saviours showing up because the team will
never finish low enough to draft one. Mediocrity for another 8 years
boys. I never thought that I would be jealous of a team in Toronto but
today, if I could wave a magic wand, I'd swap the teams out in full with
not a thought otherwise.
Thanks Marc for 5 years of up and down hockey - I'm not looking forward
to another 8 years of your hockey and I'm not making any guarantees I'll
be a loyal Hab fan. You want loyalty, get a dog. :-)
Mike <mike@gmail.com>: Jul 02 08:55AM -0300

Then its a massive failure. If Radulov walks and Markov walks then the
offence on this team will be no better than it was last year. Oh, I
suppose we will have a french guy on the top line though so I suppose
we're supposed to be happy about that. Still no #1 centre on this team.
Hell, we don't even have a legit #2 centre and while I like the Alzner
pickup, is he a #1 pairing guy? No, he's not. There are so many holes on
this team right now I don't see what our Bargain Bin GM is going to do.
He must have something up his sleeve - he has to. This team cannot go
into the year like this. If it does he should be fired immediately.
Packing the team with more fillers is like buying those rib steaks they
advertise at Dollar Tree. You can try and fool me into thinking they're
steak and I can even try to fool myself into thinking they're steak but
steak they're not.
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jul 02 05:48AM -0700

Hopefully what it does is highlight just how far this team really is. Because frankly, I'm still very optimistic that they'll bring Markov and Radulov back. Nobody else signed them, so I think the odds now are very good that they just come back to the Habs.
And even with that, I don't believe this team got better or is a contender. Drouin would have been a great *addition*, but I'll be a little surprised if history doesn't record Sergachev as the best player in the deal. And looking at the Habs' D, at all levels, losing Sergachev is going to have a big impact. So Drouin isn't as much of an "addition" as he might seem.
They didn't get a center.
Does it count as a plus that they didn't make a stupid trade to dump Galchenyuk?
I still think they missed a golden opportunity with Shipachyov. Whether he pans out or not - and it will be hard for him to prove it with that Vegas roster - he was truly a chance at a pure addition, at the position the team needed an addition the most.
You need to get a little lucky to take a step ahead, and to get lucky you need to take some chances. It's not taking much of a chance to make a series of lateral moves. This team wasn't just a little bit of chemistry away from taking the next step.
I'd also note that there were teams out there sitting on their contract extensions, like SJ with the Jones and Vlasic deals. I didn't notice any similar announcement of an extension for Price.
It's not a disastrous outcome for the Habs by any stretch either, though. Assuming they do retain Radulov and Markov. I expect a fair amount of argument that he did in fact do a Good Job if/when those last two items are settled.
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jul 02 11:29AM -0700

On Sunday, July 2, 2017 at 8:48:33 AM UTC-4, Gerry wrote:
> I'd also note that there were teams out there sitting on their
> contract extensions, like SJ with the Jones and Vlasic deals.
> I didn't notice any similar announcement of an extension for Price.

Haha, ok, never mind. :)
Reasonable deal. Price must really like it in Montreal, I guess.
zip by <kilgore@trout.com>: Jul 02 10:21AM -0400

I will be in Mtl in the coming week. Does anyone know the protocol re:
attending scrimmages in Brossard? Tickets? etc...
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