Digest for rec.sport.tennis@googlegroups.com - 25 updates in 8 topics

Wednesday, June 14, 2017

"Pelle Svanslös" <pelle@svans.los>: Jun 14 11:20AM +0300

On 14.6.2017 1:26, SliceAndDice wrote:
> Interesting choice.
 
Let's hope that's the only event he withdraws from ...
TT <ascii@dprk.kp>: Jun 14 02:06PM +0300

SliceAndDice kirjoitti 14.6.2017 klo 1:26:
> Interesting choice.
 
Grass is for cows anyway.
 
Probably saving his knees, unless they're already shot after LOTS of
clay matches. If it's only preventative then it could be a wise decision
to rest his body at this point.
 
Said on post RG final interview that it's impossible to get far at
Wimbledon if he can't bend his knees properly, which according to him
has been the case on grass since 2012 knee troubles. Didn't say when
he'll start the grass practice but said that it depends on how his knees
react on grass.
 
Best case scenario is that Moya told him to rest and he gets a good
grass practice before Wimbledon including Boodles exo... and goes to
Wimbledon rested, healthy and practised.
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: Jun 14 04:29AM -0700

On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 7:06:34 AM UTC-4, TT wrote:
 
> Best case scenario is that Moya told him to rest and he gets a good
> grass practice before Wimbledon including Boodles exo... and goes to
> Wimbledon rested, healthy and practised.
 
So he runs around and slides like a fiend on the dirt but he can't bend low on the grass because of his knees? That makes no sense whatsoever.
TT <ascii@dprk.kp>: Jun 14 02:43PM +0300

TT kirjoitti 14.6.2017 klo 14:06:
 
> Best case scenario is that Moya told him to rest and he gets a good
> grass practice before Wimbledon including Boodles exo... and goes to
> Wimbledon rested, healthy and practised.
 
Here's an interesting week old article...
 
Carlos Moya: The biggest challenge is to keep Rafael Nadal off court
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2017/06/03/carlos-moya-biggest-challenge-keep-rafael-nadal-court/
 
"Sometimes it's more important what you do off the court than on.
Resting is part of training. You have to see and detect when more is
better and when less is better."
Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 14 08:49PM +1000

On 14/06/2017 8:43 AM, *skriptis wrote:
> and rest composed of e.g. 11 FO titles, would at min make them
> co-gosts, even some giving it to Nadal.
 
> For non 7543 believers that is.
 
I'd just like to reaffirm 7543 measures the value of individual slams,
so it's not the 'complete' picture of greatness.
 
I've always maintained things like calendar slam, non-calendar slam,
career slam, most wins at a single slam etc warrant 'bonus points'. I
just haven't turned my mind to it as it's very complex to work that into
the system fairly & encompasses 150 yrs of tennis. Obviously Djoker
deserves some bonus for holding all 4 slams at the same time, Rafa's 10
FO's warrants huge bonus as next best is 7 at a slam etc.
 
7543 is imo the perfect system to evaluate slams won on a stand-alone
basis.
 
In last few eras everyone plays AO for eg, but in Mac/Borg days nobody
did. To compare past era greats to today's stars it would be helpful to
eg remove AO from everyone's resume. It still wouldn't compensate for
the uniformity of surface today etc, but at least it would be a bit more
realistic.
 
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*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: Jun 14 01:08PM +0200

> eg remove AO from everyone's resume. It still wouldn't compensate for
> the uniformity of surface today etc, but at least it would be a bit more
> realistic.
 
 
If we want to compensate and measure guys using 3 slams per era,
we should remove USO from this era, as it's a slam where two
greatest players ever haven't even met and that's been won by
likes of del Potro and Cilic in recent years. ;)
So.
 
13 Federer, Nadal
12 Sampras
11 Borg
10 Djokovic
 
 
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Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 14 09:33PM +1000

On 14/06/2017 9:19 AM, Court_1 wrote:
 
> But what if Nadal can get to 19 winning a couple of more slams off clay? What if his end tally is 12 FOs, 3 Ws, 3 USO, 1 AO. It's not like he wouldn't have non-clay slams on his resume even though Federer has a better balance.
 
> Carey is right, if Nadal somehow does get to 19, most of the world/tennis analysts will consider Nadal greater. Sad but true. I doubt Nadal will be able to get to 19 but the thing which is a bit worrying is that he's full of confidence, Djokovic is in the toilet at the moment and the younger players are useless as tits on a bull. So who knows really?
 
Exactly. if Rafa does somehow win Wimbledon he'll be almost unstoppable
at USO. In just a few weeks Rafa could well be sitting on 17 slams -
yikes! Be a huge turn around from a few weeks ago when very few thought
Rafa could catch Fed (aside from Jaros?).
 
 
 
 
 
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Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: Jun 14 04:34AM -0700

On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 1:38:23 AM UTC-4, ahonkan wrote:
 
> Yes, a lot will depend on the draw. I think, for a change, Fed would be
> more worried about Raonic, Kyrgios & Zverev than about the 'Big 3'. More
> than likely, they may self-destruct before the QF-SF stage.
 
True unless Nadal makes the later stages of the tournament and Federer has to play him. In that case it would be tough to pick between the two. Slight edge to Federer.

> However good Rafa has been playing all year, it's important to remember
> that every single of his title this year has been won on clay. And he has
> been terrible the last 4 times he played at Wimbledon.
 
Also true but remember Nadal almost won the AO which was quicker this year.
Nadal may not even play Wimbledon. It sounds like the bad knees excuse machine is starting to make the rounds.
Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 14 09:37PM +1000

On 14/06/2017 9:35 AM, Court_1 wrote:
 
> Also, even though Federer is the favorite to win Wimbledon, what if he has a draw with Kyrgios and Cilic on his side for example? If those players are zoning they could knock him out.
 
Yes, the slams so far this yr have been very interesting. Wimbledon may
top them all. Hope so.
 
Maybe Fed v Rafa will be tight 5 setter Rafa wins with lucky letcord in
the dark?
 
: )
 
 
 
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Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 14 09:38PM +1000

On 14/06/2017 9:42 AM, Carey wrote:
 
>> Also, even though Federer is the favorite to win Wimbledon, what if he has a draw with Kyrgios and Cilic on his side for example? If those players are zoning they could knock him out.
 
> Kyrgios is the one I'm worried about.
 
> ---
 
 
Yes, he's primed & would love to face Fed at Wimbledon I reckon.
 
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Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: Jun 14 04:41AM -0700

On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 7:33:53 AM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:
> at USO. In just a few weeks Rafa could well be sitting on 17 slams -
> yikes! Be a huge turn around from a few weeks ago when very few thought
> Rafa could catch Fed (aside from Jaros?).
 
He may skip Wimbledon. He's already talking about his "bad knees" playing on grass.
 
We all hype up players when they win a slam and think they are going to win the next 10 slams but it rarely occurs that way especially for players 30+.
Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 14 09:42PM +1000

On 14/06/2017 12:29 PM, stephenJ wrote:
> slams is the GOAT.
 
> Fed has three more, but Rafa has 5 years to erase that. Interesting
> situation. And Joker is lurking.
 
You've been more bullish re Rafa catching Fed straight after AO than
anyone else (most had written him off), so credit for that insight.
 
 
 
 
 
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Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: Jun 14 04:43AM -0700

On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 7:37:58 AM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:
 
> Maybe Fed v Rafa will be tight 5 setter Rafa wins with lucky letcord in
> the dark?
 
> : )
 
I'm rooting for Fed on this one. I want to see that #8 Wimbledon. ;)
Federer Fanatic <TheRelentlessTide@nospam.invalid>: Jun 14 06:37AM -0500

On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 15:28:51 -0700 (PDT), The Iceberg <iceberg.rules@gmail.com> wrote:
| It's this annoying Google groups posting thing, sorry.
 
 
use slrn.
 
FF
Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 14 09:19PM +1000

On 14/06/2017 8:57 AM, grif wrote:
>>> the two best who didn't win a Major.
 
>> I would add Nalby to that list.
 
> For sure.
 
Adding Nalbandian to that list is like adding Bieber to
Beethoven/Tchaikovsky.
 
 
 
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Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 14 09:29PM +1000

On 14/06/2017 9:07 AM, grif wrote:
>> as Mecir or Rios.
 
> He was probably answering the " ..best who didn't win a Major" more.
> Having said that, one part of his game that was a work of art was his bh.
 
Disagree. Nalby is completely forgotten by history.
 
 
 
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Federer Fanatic <TheRelentlessTide@nospam.invalid>: Jun 14 06:33AM -0500

On Tue, 13 Jun 2017 15:36:24 -0700 (PDT), Carey <carey_1959@yahoo.com> wrote:
| On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 3:22:28 PM UTC-7, Shakes wrote:
|> On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 2:28:08 PM UTC-7, Carey wrote:
|> > I've been watching some of Rios's matches online, as I wasn't paying attention much when he was playing.
|> > The guy was incredible! Can you imagine Rios-Mecir? Two of the most magical players ever, and maybe
|> > the two best who didn't win a Major.
|>
|> Lol ! Did you read my post yesterday about how Rios was like Mecir in some ways ?
|
|
| No, I didn't see that particular one, but it was another of your posts including Rios that jogged my memory.
 
 
Early Fed versus Rios: https://youtu.be/aObTLmd8Y0E
 
 
FF
Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 14 09:05PM +1000

If we remove AO from stats we are left with the 3 biggest slams -
Wim/USO/FO. AO has not always been considered a true slam so guys like
Mac/Borg are penalized for not playing. To get a better reflection of
which players had the most success at the very highest level, & more
realistic comparison between past greats & today's stars I post the
below list (still not perfect as today's top guys have it easier with
uniformity of surface speeds etc, but it's helpful);
 
 
Nadal 14
Federer 13
Sampras 12
Borg 11
 
McEnroe 7
Connors 7
 
Djoker 6
Lendl 6
 
Becker 4
Edberg 4
Agassi 4
Wilander 4
 
Murray 3
 
 
What's interesting here is most people would intuitively have the same
top 4 guys as per above, & the difference between them would be as thin
as this list suggests. Imo a worldwide poll would have Rafa ahead of
Federer by a small margin, & this list backs that up. Funny most
compare Djoker to Lendl, & this list confirms it.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: Jun 14 04:19AM -0700

On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 7:05:42 AM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:
> as this list suggests. Imo a worldwide poll would have Rafa ahead of
> Federer by a small margin, & this list backs that up. Funny most
> compare Djoker to Lendl, & this list confirms it.
 
You've conjured up a lot of dumb things but this takes the cake!
 
Plus, no a worldwide poll would not have Nadal ahead of Federer by a small margin, worldwide polls have Federer ahead of Nadal by a large margin. You have no clue what you're talking about and it can't be taken seriously. *rolls eyes*
"Pelle Svanslös" <pelle@svans.los>: Jun 14 02:26PM +0300

On 14.6.2017 14:05, Whisper wrote:
> as this list suggests. Imo a worldwide poll would have Rafa ahead of
> Federer by a small margin, & this list backs that up. Funny most compare
> Djoker to Lendl, & this list confirms it.
 
Too bad your list can't back anything that does not exist.
 
Nice try though.
soccerfan777 <zepfloyes@gmail.com>: Jun 14 04:30AM -0700

Any one who considers Australian open as the lesser slam since 1988 is a fucking idiot. All top players have been playing AO since it moved to Flinders Park.
 
You cannot remove slams willy-nilly to come up with lists that suit your own agenda. I might as well remove Wimbledon because it is played on that obsolete surface that no one gives a hoot about if not for Wimbledon.
 
If you take Wimbly off Nadal is twice better than Sampras.
Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 14 09:22PM +1000

On 14/06/2017 9:05 AM, Carey wrote:
 
>> Yes, good post, proves beyond any doubt that Fed at peak can beat peak Rafa easily! should have played like this the last 7 ears, but too stubborn to change, ask Mozart to change his concertos? Rafa is still in tier 1, so should be happy, if he wins 15 FO, will never pass Fedman!
 
> Guypers, if you like that stuff, go back and watch TMC Final 2003 v Agassi. Fed just hammers some BHs,
> along with other highlight-reel stuff throughout the match.
 
Why not go back to 2001 USO where old Agassi crushes Federer 61 62 64?
Federer was playing great stuff, as evidenced by his won over Sampras at
Wimbledon earlier that yr.
 
 
 
 
 
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Tim <firemonkey@gatty.co.uk>: Jun 14 12:11PM +0100

On 14/06/2017 04:57, Bharath Purohit wrote:
> I was kinda looking forward to it.
 
> Sad. Looks like another early exit from Wimbledon then.
 
Nadal will win Wimbledon. It's guaranteed.
 
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"Pelle Svanslös" <pelle@svans.los>: Jun 14 12:49PM +0300

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trump-is-making-europe-liberal-again/
 
:)
*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: Jun 14 01:00PM +0200

> https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/donald-trump-is-making-europe-liberal-again/
 
> :)
 
 
Another fake news. Facts may be correct, but the whole agenda is a
corrupt/lying one.
 
To celebrate European "liberals" winning, means to celebrate
ethno-masochism and degeneracy. Not everyone on our continent is
infected with "swebola", though.
 
 
What that article is all about, is not very surprising since
western Europe is flooded with migrants and non-natives and their
descendants, who at worst, will blow themselves up (a tower is
burning in London as we speak, wonder why), or at best, vote for
*their own* interests, and impose them, using democratic system
in a alliance with liberals, to push their agenda.

 
Some of the election the article analyzes were decided by couple
of %, and migrants percentages are in double digits in some of
the countries. No doubt natives are slowly losing the legal and
even democratic options to govern their countries.

 
There's nothing more revealing (to those who want to be aware of
it) than seeing protests in big European cities with messages
like "refugees welcome", with women/gay vegans and migrants
themselves, those that are already there, holding the
signs.
 
Just for the fun too, you've seen eurosong and how Germany awards
12 points to Turkey "every" time. You think herd mentality and
Islamic desire for conquest stops at music competition, and won't
translate to politics?
 
Good one.
 
 
Check these ones, western countries are hilarious, before I finish
my post in style.
 
 
83% of Pakistanis support stoning adulterers, 78% of Pakistanis
support killing apostates (source )
 
Center for Social Cohesion: 40% of British Muslim students want
Sharia (source )(source )
 
ICM Poll: 40% of British Muslims want Sharia in the UK (source )
 
GfK NOP: 28% of British Muslims want Britain to be an Islamic
state (source )
 
MacDonald Laurier Institute: 62% of Muslims want Sharia in Canada
(15% say make it mandatory) (source )(source )
 
World Public Opinion:
81% of Egyptians want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
 
76% of Pakistanis want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
 
49% (plurality) of Indonesians want strict Sharia imposed in every
Islamic country
 
76% of Moroccans want strict Sharia imposed in every Islamic country
(source )
 
World Public Opinion: 64% of Egyptians said it was ?very important
for the government? to ?apply traditional punishments for crimes
such as stoning adulterers.? (source )
 
Pew Research (2010):
77% of Egyptian Muslims favor floggings and amputation
 
58% of Jordanian Muslims favor floggings and amputation
 
36% of Indonesian Muslims favor floggings and amputation
 
82% of Pakistanis favor floggings and amputation
 
65% of Nigerian Muslims favor floggings and amputation
(source )
 
Pew Research (2010):
82% of Egyptian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
 
70% of Jordanian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
 
42% of Indonesian Muslims favor stoning adulterers
 
82% of Pakistanis favor stoning adulterers
 
56% of Nigerian Muslims favor stoning adulterers(source )
 
Pew Research (2013): 81% of South Asian Muslims and 57% of
Egyptians support amputating limbs for theft. (source
)
 
Pew Research (2013): According to an interpretation of this study,
approximately 45% of Sharia supporters surveyed disagreed with
the idea that Islamic law should apply only to Muslims. (source
)
 
Economist (Pew 2013): 74% who favor Islamic law in Egypt say it
should apply to non-Muslims as well. (source )
 
 
******WZB Berlin Social Science Center: 65% of Muslims in Europe
say Sharia is more important than the law of the country they
live in. (source )(source )******
 
*******FPO (2014): 43% of Islamic teachers in Austria openly
advocate Sharia law over democracy.(source )*******
 
*******The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 33% of
Muslim-Americans say that Sharia should be supreme to the US
Constitution (43% disagree).(source )********
 
********The Polling Company CSP Poll (2015): 51% of
Muslim-Americans say that Muslims should have the choice of being
judged by Sharia courts rather than courts of the United States
(39% disagree). (source )*******
 
*******2015 (Jyllands Posten): 77% of Muslims in Denmark believe
the Quran?s instructions should be ?fully appied?. (source
)*****!
 
*******2015 (Jyllands Postn): Only 53% of Danish Muslims believe
Danish law should be based on the constitution and not the Quran.
*******
 
 
 
And 100% of these have a right to vote. :)
 
 
 
 
 
 
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