Digest for rec.sport.tennis@googlegroups.com - 25 updates in 3 topics

Saturday, June 10, 2017

Federer Fanatic <TheRelentlessTide@nospam.invalid>: Jun 10 09:40AM -0500

On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 07:38:15 -0700 (PDT), calimero377@gmx.de <calimero377@gmx.de> wrote:
| On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 4:14:07 PM UTC+2, Garvin Yee wrote:
|> On 6/10/2017 7:08 AM, calimero377@gmx.de wrote:
|> > On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 4:05:38 PM UTC+2, Garvin Yee wrote:
|> >> On 6/10/2017 7:01 AM, Court_1 wrote:
|> >>> Halep just needs to continue getting as many balls back as possible and wait for the error and implosion to come.
|> >>>
|> >>
|> >> Agreed.
|> >>
|> >> Maybe Halep in straights....
|> >>
|> >>
|> >
|> > But maybe only in three.
|> > However, Ospapenko could still win it.
|> >
|>
|> No, I was wrong.
|>
|> Ostapemko has a flashy, hard hitting game, but Halep
|> is clearly more solid.
|>
|> Now fuck off, please....
|>
|
| Halep clearly more solid?
|
| Max
 
 
Historically sure, but Jelena is reigning her wildness and wins 2nd set.
 
Stan should trade Vekic for Ostapenko? They have a similar power game?:-)
 
FF
TT <ascii@dprk.kp>: Jun 10 05:46PM +0300

Court_1 kirjoitti 10.6.2017 klo 17:40:
> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 10:18:42 AM UTC-4, TT wrote:
 
>> Thiem is no ball basher.
 
> He's the ultimate ball basher and a dumb one.
 
I don't think so...
 
Of course if you only watched his two last matches against Rafa then yes
he did look like one - but then again not sure if he had much options...
tough to beat Rafa by rallying...
Federer Fanatic <TheRelentlessTide@nospam.invalid>: Jun 10 09:57AM -0500

On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 07:54:48 -0700 (PDT), Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com> wrote:
| On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 10:51:08 AM UTC-4, Federer Fanatic wrote:
|> On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 17:46:07 +0300, TT <ascii@dprk.kp> wrote:
|> | Court_1 kirjoitti 10.6.2017 klo 17:40:
|> |> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 10:18:42 AM UTC-4, TT wrote:
|> |>
|> |>> Thiem is no ball basher.
|> |>
|> |> He's the ultimate ball basher and a dumb one.
|> |
|> | I don't think so...
|> |
|> | Of course if you only watched his two last matches against Rafa then yes
|> | he did look like one - but then again not sure if he had much options...
|> | tough to beat Rafa by rallying...
|>
|> courty has a stake in maintaining this mantra since she has said the
|> same thing for years. Thiem is a decent player who may win a couple
|> of slams before he retires. But his game is awkward looking from a
|> stroke mechanic point of view: forehand with extreme western grip--suitable
|> on clay and a rather bizaare backhand where he seems to leap in the
|> air as he hits.
|>
|> FF
|
| I don't have a stake in anything. I change my mind all the time about players. For example I used to dislike Azarenka
| and grew to like her. Thiem is nothing special IMO. He could win a RG title but it's just a likely he won't. He's a real
| dumb ball basher and I'm not sure he has the killer instinct.
 
And my point is proven ;-)
 
FF
*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: Jun 10 07:19PM +0200


>> And my point is proven ;-)
 
>> FF
 
> Your point isn't proven. If Thiem does something to impress me, I'll change my tune about him but watching him play vs Nadal in that SF, I thought he was hopeless. Look at the difference between his performance and Ostapenko's. See the difference in their killer instinct?
 
Very smart comparing the challenges of playing vs Halepn who you
call choker, defensive etc and playing vs Nadal?
 
 
It took Wawrinka almost a decade to develop him mind and game.
Many losses to big 4 before that.
 
Thiem seems to still be at learning process. This is probably the
first match he ever played against in-form Rafa in best of 5,
that people actually expected something from in such a match. He
wasn't the fave but he was a legitimate challenger.

 
 
 
 
 
--
*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: Jun 10 07:21PM +0200


> Not much variety to cheer about, no great rallies... often ends up with
> winner or UE. I guess her playing style is entertaining too to some extent.
 
The Ukrainian has been fantastic to watch.
--
Gracchus <gracchado@gmail.com>: Jun 10 09:14AM -0700

Damn...the true Batman dead. That sucks.
 
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/adam-west-dead-batman-star-832264
TT <ascii@dprk.kp>: Jun 10 07:21PM +0300

Gracchus kirjoitti 10.6.2017 klo 19:14:
> Damn...the true Batman dead. That sucks.
 
> http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/adam-west-dead-batman-star-832264
 
Holy Batman!
Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 11 02:29AM +1000

On 11/06/2017 2:14 AM, Gracchus wrote:
> Damn...the true Batman dead. That sucks.
 
> http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/adam-west-dead-batman-star-832264
 
It does. I just bought the '66 bluray set. I guess it had to happen
sooner or later. Stan Lee is probably next.
 
 
 
 
 
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Gracchus <gracchado@gmail.com>: Jun 10 10:06AM -0700

On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 9:29:56 AM UTC-7, Whisper wrote:
 
> > http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/adam-west-dead-batman-star-832264
 
> It does. I just bought the '66 bluray set. I guess it had to happen
> sooner or later. Stan Lee is probably next.
 
Yeah, Stan Lee's death will be hard to take. So will some others from that generation like Carl Reiner, Mel Brooks, Kirk Douglas. Even Shatner. He's a prick but still an icon.
Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 11 03:25AM +1000

On 11/06/2017 3:06 AM, Gracchus wrote:
 
>> It does. I just bought the '66 bluray set. I guess it had to happen
>> sooner or later. Stan Lee is probably next.
 
> Yeah, Stan Lee's death will be hard to take. So will some others from that generation like Carl Reiner, Mel Brooks, Kirk Douglas. Even Shatner. He's a prick but still an icon.
 
Yep. Don't make them like that anymore.
 
Jerry Lewis (91) had a health scare recently - big fave of my mum's
generation, ahead of his time/larger than life character - Jim Carey is
the poor man's Jerry Lewis. Clint Eastwood is also getting up there in
age (87).
 
John Cleese is one of my personal faves & he's getting up there -
'Fawlty Towers' is ever fresh.
 
Rod Laver is probably the biggest tennis icon who is 'due' to shuffle off.
 
The byproduct of living longer - seeing all your idols/icons die off.
 
: (
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: Jun 10 07:13PM +0200


>> It does. I just bought the '66 bluray set. I guess it had to happen
>> sooner or later. Stan Lee is probably next.
 
> Yeah, Stan Lee's death will be hard to take. So will some others from that generation like Carl Reiner, Mel Brooks, Kirk Douglas. Even Shatner. He's a prick but still an icon.
 
 
Why I'm not surprised you taking Takei's side?
--
Gracchus <gracchado@gmail.com>: Jun 10 08:41AM -0700

On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 8:28:48 AM UTC-7, Whisper wrote:
 
> Agreed. The game needs a real woman player who is hungry & not scared to
> win. There are only 2 - Serena who is pregnant & Sharapova.
 
Is it really "fear of winning" though? To me it seems more like a chronic "beta" mindset. They believe in themselves enough to be world-class or top 10, but don't believe they're a slam-winning caliber of player.
 
Players like Graf, Seles, Serena, or Sharapova had that belief even in their early teens, but most never get there. They resign themselves to the mindset that runner-up is good enough, so it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. I could see this with Wozniacki and Jankovic playing Serena for example. It's disgusting to watch their body-language say, "Yes, I know I'm your poodle and that's okay. I'm happy just to bask in the glow of a real champion."
Federer Fanatic <TheRelentlessTide@nospam.invalid>: Jun 10 10:41AM -0500

On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 08:27:00 -0700 (PDT), Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com> wrote:
| On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 11:17:46 AM UTC-4, Federer Fanatic wrote:
|> On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 18:14:05 +0300, TT <ascii@dprk.kp> wrote:
|> | Court_1 kirjoitti 10.6.2017 klo 18:11:
|> |> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 11:04:53 AM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:
|> |>> Dear oh dear.
|> |>
|> |> Yep, Halep is a choker and she's very vulnerable to power players. Always has been.
|> |>
|> |
|> | She didn't really choke...
|>
|> No. She's a defensive player. Without killer shots it's hard to beat big hitters like Jelena Stapenko.
|>
|> FF
|
| Tell that to Chirs Evert who won 18 slams with her mostly defensive style. It's that Halep is missing that champion's
| mentality. She was three games away from the title in the second and blew it. There's no other way to spin it.
 
In an era when power players were few and the tennis racquets did not permit dynamic play.
 
 
FF
TT <ascii@dprk.kp>: Jun 10 06:55PM +0300

Court_1 kirjoitti 10.6.2017 klo 18:23:
 
>>> Yep, Halep is a choker and she's very vulnerable to power players. Always has been.
 
>> Halep is better than 95 % of all power players.
 
> Well she isn't better than Ostapenko because she's slamless and Ostapenko isn't.
 
Sure she's better than Ostapenko.
Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 11 01:59AM +1000

On 11/06/2017 1:41 AM, Gracchus wrote:
 
>> Agreed. The game needs a real woman player who is hungry & not scared to
>> win. There are only 2 - Serena who is pregnant & Sharapova.
 
> Is it really "fear of winning" though? To me it seems more like a chronic "beta" mindset. They believe in themselves enough to be world-class or top 10, but don't believe they're a slam-winning caliber of player.
 
Yes, I mean 'fear of winning' at the slam semi or final level. They
really need to overcome that fear & see it as a golden opportunity &
privilege.
 
 
 
> Players like Graf, Seles, Serena, or Sharapova had that belief even in their early teens, but most never get there.
 
They all had dominant fathers guiding them though, so maybe there's
something there?
 
> They resign themselves to the mindset that runner-up is good enough, so it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. I could see this with Wozniacki and Jankovic playing Serena for example. It's >disgusting to watch their body-language say, "Yes, I know I'm your poodle and that's okay. I'm happy just to bask in the glow of a real champion."
 
Exactly, & really it's not good enough for this great sport with so many
fans wanting to see ultimate efforts. We all want to feel satisfied at
the end of a slam that everyone has put in 100% & the best player on the
day won, not the player who choked less than the opponent. The men's AO
is a perfect example of what I expect in slams - everyone trying to play
their best & leaving it all out there.
 
Like her or hate her, Sharapova is an example to other players on how to
conduct yourself & approach matches. It's not that she's fabulously
talented, but she has the mind of a real champion. She sure as fuck
doesn't need the money so I really respect her.
 
 
 
 
 
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Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 11 02:00AM +1000

On 11/06/2017 1:55 AM, TT wrote:
 
>> Well she isn't better than Ostapenko because she's slamless and
>> Ostapenko isn't.
 
> Sure she's better than Ostapenko.
 
Nope.
 
 
 
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TT <ascii@dprk.kp>: Jun 10 07:05PM +0300

Whisper kirjoitti 10.6.2017 klo 19:00:
 
>> Sure she's better than Ostapenko.
 
> Nope.
 
Yes she is...
Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 11 02:26AM +1000

On 11/06/2017 2:05 AM, TT wrote:
 
I would never tip Halep, Stosur, Radwanska to win any slam going
forward. I may tip Ostapenko. That puts her ahead already.
 
 
 
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Federer Fanatic <TheRelentlessTide@nospam.invalid>: Jun 10 10:17AM -0500

On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 18:14:05 +0300, TT <ascii@dprk.kp> wrote:
| Court_1 kirjoitti 10.6.2017 klo 18:11:
|> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 11:04:53 AM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:
|>> Dear oh dear.
|>
|> Yep, Halep is a choker and she's very vulnerable to power players. Always has been.
|>
|
| She didn't really choke...
 
No. She's a defensive player. Without killer shots it's hard to beat big hitters like Jelena Stapenko.
 
FF
jdeluise <jdeluise@gmail.com>: Jun 10 05:00PM

On Sun, 11 Jun 2017 02:26:13 +1000, Whisper wrote:
 
> I may tip Ostapenko. That puts her ahead already.
 
But you tipped Tomic, Roddick... probably puts her behind :(
Gracchus <gracchado@gmail.com>: Jun 10 10:07AM -0700

On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 10:00:47 AM UTC-7, jdeluise wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Jun 2017 02:26:13 +1000, Whisper wrote:
 
> > I may tip Ostapenko. That puts her ahead already.
 
> But you tipped Tomic, Roddick... probably puts her behind :(
 
Well Roddick did win a slam.
heyguys00@gmail.com: Jun 10 10:22AM -0700

On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 11:41:38 AM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:
> > win. There are only 2 - Serena who is pregnant & Sharapova.
 
> Is it really "fear of winning" though? To me it seems more like a chronic "beta" mindset. They believe in themselves enough to be world-class or top 10, but don't believe they're a slam-winning caliber of player.
 
> Players like Graf, Seles, Serena, or Sharapova had that belief even in their early teens, but most never get there. They resign themselves to the mindset that runner-up is good enough, so it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. I could see this with Wozniacki and Jankovic playing Serena for example. It's disgusting to watch their body-language say, "Yes, I know I'm your poodle and that's okay. I'm happy just to bask in the glow of a real champion."
 
Graf, Seles, Serena and Sharapova all won their first slam final at 16/17 playing the best player on tour. That has to give them a "nothing less than winning is good enough" mentality. Of course, Sanchez did it as well, but she just wasn't as good as Graf/Seles, so belief isn't going to matter.
 
Of course this win doesn't put Ostapenko in that category, but we'll see what she's made of soon enough. My guess is a Mary Pierce level career (who she plays like more than Seles IMO).
Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 11 03:27AM +1000


>> Players like Graf, Seles, Serena, or Sharapova had that belief even in their early teens, but most never get there. They resign themselves to the mindset that runner-up is good enough, so it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. I could see this with Wozniacki and Jankovic playing Serena for example. It's disgusting to watch their body-language say, "Yes, I know I'm your poodle and that's okay. I'm happy just to bask in the glow of a real champion."
 
> Graf, Seles, Serena and Sharapova all won their first slam final at 16/17 playing the best player on tour. That has to give them a "nothing less than winning is good enough" mentality. Of course, Sanchez did it as well, but she just wasn't as good as Graf/Seles, so belief isn't going to matter.
 
> Of course this win doesn't put Ostapenko in that category, but we'll see what she's made of soon enough. My guess is a Mary Pierce level career (who she plays like more than Seles IMO).
 
I'm hopeful because she's so young (1st unseeded FO champ in 80 yrs?).
We don't want more 1 hit wonders like Muguruza.
 
 
 
 
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*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: Jun 10 07:09PM +0200


>> No. She's a defensive player. Without killer shots it's hard to beat big hitters like Jelena Stapenko.
 
>> FF
 
> Tell that to Chirs Evert who won 18 slams with her mostly defensive style. It's that Halep is missing that champion's mentality. She was three games away from the title in the second and blew it. There's no other way to spin it.
 
Chris Evert lol.
 
Who could have blown her off the court with wooden racquets on
clay? Laughable.
 
She won big titles while young, in a much. Smaller pool of
players, and as soon as you win early on your confidence grows.
Maybe Halep in the 70s and with slam title from an early age
develops champion's mentality. Maybe not.
 
But she's certainly at disadvantage in this power play era with
graphite racquets. Evert had it easier.
 
And likewise, Christ Evert in modern era becomes Radwanska.
 
 
Navratilova had some outstanding qualities and weapons, Evert not
so much.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
--
*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: Jun 10 07:12PM +0200

> performance, but they should realize they are pretty lucky to get away
> with it.
 
> : )
 
 
Soon the tours will be split, and nobody will steal from anyone.
The current situation is unbearable and as soon as you see guys
in charge talking about it you know the changes are about to
arrive.
 
If they earn it, I don't have a problem with women being paid
triple as men.
 
 
 
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