Digest for rec.sport.tennis@googlegroups.com - 25 updates in 5 topics

Tuesday, June 27, 2017

*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: Jun 27 06:11PM +0200

>> game inferior to men? But if they played among men...they'd be
>> even better?
 
> I'm saying women players don't practice the shots that it would take to beat a male pro, so of course they're never going to beat them (even if they were equally matched physically, which of course they're not). If a woman's ROS is optimized to face 115mph serves because that's best for beating women, why would it be a surprise they're not that great at returning 125mph serves? I'm saying is there is another factor at play along with a mismatch of physical abilities.
 
Looks like an excuse in the making?
 
When did Federer have a chance to optimize his game for vicious
lefty topspin?
 
Or people facing Karlovic serve (angles, more than the sheer speed)?
 
 
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ahonkan <ahonkan@gmail.com>: Jun 27 10:25AM -0700

On Tuesday, 27 June 2017 20:19:07 UTC+5:30, soccerfan777 wrote:
> What no one mentioned in this thread is how mentally weaker women are compared to the men. The number of times they get broken is probably twice more. Their second serves are significantly slower. They also have great trouble getting in positions for good return of serve. So basically they have a more trouble converting offense to defense. And not to mention they dont play 5 sets, so they dont have the stamina to play best of 5 either.
 
So you think Serena is mentally weaker than the current men's #1 Murray?
Even Murray will disagree!
heyguys00@gmail.com: Jun 27 10:27AM -0700

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 12:30:03 PM UTC-4, *skriptis wrote:
 
> Looks like an excuse in the making?
 
> When did Federer have a chance to optimize his game for vicious
> lefty topspin?
 
Uh, that's exactly why Nadal's lefty spin is trouble for Fed... Thanks for making my point. ;-)
PeteWasLucky <waleed.khedr@gmail.com>: Jun 27 09:23AM -0700

> Quit trolling...
 
So you don't want to say Federer beat top form nadal, and that nadal somehow became top form when the clay season started that coincidentally it's all clay surface :)
 
So since you are saying Nadal is top form now, will he be top form if he loses on grass or on HC the rest of the year?
Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 28 02:26AM +1000

On 28/06/2017 12:22 AM, SliceAndDice wrote:
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> Umm..Nadal has won 2/3rd of his slams at the French and 72% of his titles on clay. I would not use his form there to predict how he will do elsewhere.
 
That's exactly what I'm using. His form is extra special this yr.
 
: )
 
 
 
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Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 28 02:27AM +1000

On 28/06/2017 12:58 AM, kaennorsing wrote:
 
> Take Federer out of the picture and Rafa would have probably won AO, Indian Wells and Miami back to back to back for what would have been his best ever run on hard, by far. As it is though, it's still his best ever start to the year, despite the 3 losses to Fed.
 
> You're only dismissing his level because of those losses to the GOAT. Hoever, nobody's stupid enough to fall for it. The clay and FO just reaffirmed his incredible, recordbreaking level this year.
 
Come on, anyone can see Rafa v Stan FO final was much higher standard
from Rafa than AO.
 
 
 
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Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 28 02:30AM +1000

On 28/06/2017 2:23 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
>> Quit trolling...
 
> So you don't want to say Federer beat top form nadal, and that nadal somehow became top form when the clay season started that coincidentally it's all clay surface :)
 
Look at Rafa's path to AO final compared to FO.
 
There is nothing to debate here. Rafa was 3 times better at FO than AO.
Fed fans better hope & pray Rafa drops back to AO form to give Fed a
chance.
 
 
 
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Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: Jun 27 09:36AM -0700

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 12:27:33 PM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:
 
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Ok, but if Nadal somehow loses early at Wimbledon or makes the final and loses there (especially to Federer) don't go claiming his form dropped again.
 
The truth is his form has been incredible all year. If he's making hc slam finals he's playing some of his best tennis. Also, you said repeatedly after the AO final that Nadal's level was high in that final and that Federer grew some balls and outplayed him for once. Don't go back on that now and look like a weasel.
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: Jun 27 09:41AM -0700

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 12:31:01 PM UTC-4, Whisper wrote:
 
> There is nothing to debate here. Rafa was 3 times better at FO than AO.
> Fed fans better hope & pray Rafa drops back to AO form to give Fed a
> chance.
 
And you better hope Federer forgets how to serve and hit his new and improved bh and ROS or else Sampras' most important record will be in the toilet! :)
kaennorsing <ljubitsis@hotmail.com>: Jun 27 09:51AM -0700

Op dinsdag 27 juni 2017 18:27:33 UTC+2 schreef Whisper:
 
> Come on, anyone can see Rafa v Stan FO final was much higher standard
> from Rafa than AO.
 
So Rafa is as good on other surfaces as he is on clay? Oh wow, I didn't know that! But what explains the zero title defenses on other surfaces than clay, where he defends pretty much everything he plays? And shouldn't he posses the all time slam record with about 40 slams in total by now? Instead of a measly 15?
 
Perhaps playing Fed, the tennis GOAT, at a hardcourt slam is a little more difficult to look as great against as vs Stan on clay? Particularly for Rafa, the clear clay GOAT? Could it be that?
Carey <carey_1959@yahoo.com>: Jun 27 09:56AM -0700

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 9:51:14 AM UTC-7, kaennorsing wrote:
 
 
> So Rafa is as good on other surfaces as he is on clay? Oh wow, I didn't know that! But what explains the zero title defenses on other surfaces than clay, where he defends pretty much everything he plays? And shouldn't he posses the all time slam record with about 40 slams in total by now? Instead of a measly 15?
 
> Perhaps playing Fed, the tennis GOAT, at a hardcourt slam is a little more difficult to look as great against as vs Stan on clay? Particularly for Rafa, the clear clay GOAT? Could it be that?
 
 
:)
*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: Jun 27 06:48PM +0200

> Murray at times if only he could turn that part of his psyche off I think
> he'd have a much better record against them would and would already be
> going for #10 at Wimbledon.
 
 
If he were like that, not only he'd be going for his 10th
Wimbledon, but I'd be his biggest fan.
 
But he isn't, and you described him pretty accurately. I can't
warm up for such a player with such psyche and mental fortitude.

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Do you think Shakes could take that? :) Ah
 
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*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: Jun 27 06:54PM +0200


>> Having said that we'll probably have a Kyrgios/Zverev final.
 
>> : )
 
> Take Federer out of the picture and Rafa would have probably won AO, Indian Wells and Miami back to back to back for what would have been his best ever run on hard, by far. As it is though, it's still his best ever start to the year, despite the 3 losses to Fed.
 
 
You do realize Nadal won IW, Canada, Cincinnati, US Open in 2013?
 
How would winning AO, losing to Querrey in Acapulco, and winning
IW, Miami constitute by far the best hardcourt run??
 
Not to mention that you can't go coulda woulda that far. He lost
to Federer before the final in IW. So hypothetical IW is worth
far less that hypothetical AO and Miami this year.

 
 
 
 
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Guypers <gapp111@gmail.com>: Jun 27 10:01AM -0700

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 12:23:47 PM UTC-4, PeteWasLucky wrote:
> > Quit trolling...
 
> So you don't want to say Federer beat top form nadal, and that nadal somehow became top form when the clay season started that coincidentally it's all clay surface :)
 
> So since you are saying Nadal is top form now, will he be top form if he loses on grass or on HC the rest of the year?
 
Fed at peak is in a higher quantum level than peak Laver, Sampras, Kneedal on grass is like Hydrogen!
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: Jun 27 10:15AM -0700

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 12:51:14 PM UTC-4, kaennorsing wrote:

> Perhaps playing Fed, the tennis GOAT, at a hardcourt slam is a little more difficult to look as great against as vs Stan on clay? Particularly for Rafa, the clear clay GOAT? Could it be that?
 
 
You know what, it doesn't matter what Federer accomplishes. These clueless souls on RST will find a way to diminish any great Federer feat. If Federer wins Wimbledon and thus establishes his GOATNESS even further, there will be a whole new barrel of reasons why it doesn't count or it's not as impressive according to these numbskulls.
 
He's the friggin' GOAT you RST morons! If he wins this Wimbledon there will be ZERO doubt left. I really hope Federer wins this Wimbledon so you can all choke on your own bile. Please Fed, don't fuck up. You have one more big job to do!
Gracchus <gracchado@gmail.com>: Jun 27 10:18AM -0700

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 9:36:21 AM UTC-7, Court_1 wrote:
> > from Rafa than AO.
 
> Ok, but if Nadal somehow loses early at Wimbledon or makes the final and loses there (especially to Federer) don't go claiming his form dropped again.
 
> The truth is his form has been incredible all year. If he's making hc slam finals he's playing some of his best tennis. Also, you said repeatedly after the AO final that Nadal's level was high in that final and that Federer grew some balls and outplayed him for once. Don't go back on that now and look like a weasel.
 
I knew that Whisp would eventually do that after the AO. He tried to play the good sport for a few weeks about how glad he was to see Federer step up, and all that bullshit. Then after a couple of months, it's Rafa was up 3-1 and let it slip away, Rafa was playing 50% of his FO level (as if the slow red clay weren't a factor in that??). Can't keep the weasel in its den forever I guess.
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: Jun 27 10:25AM -0700

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 1:18:39 PM UTC-4, Gracchus wrote:

> > The truth is his form has been incredible all year. If he's making hc slam finals he's playing some of his best tennis. Also, you said repeatedly after the AO final that Nadal's level was high in that final and that Federer grew some balls and outplayed him for once. Don't go back on that now and look like a weasel.
 
> I knew that Whisp would eventually do that after the AO. He tried to play the good sport for a few weeks about how glad he was to see Federer step up, and all that bullshit. Then after a couple of months, it's Rafa was up 3-1 and let it slip away, Rafa was playing 50% of his FO level (as if the slow red clay weren't a factor in that??). Can't keep the weasel in its den forever I guess.
 
Ha ha, exactly and he's so predictable. You could see him stewing in his juices and knew this new angle was coming to try and diminish Fed's great AO performance(one he told us over and over was a great and ballsy Fed performance!) Vomit!
PeteWasLucky <waleed.khedr@gmail.com>: Jun 27 10:25AM -0700

> So you don't want to say Federer beat top form nadal, and that nadal somehow became top form when the clay season started that coincidentally it's all clay surface :)
 
So since you are saying Nadal is top form now, will he be top form if he loses on grass or on HC the rest of the year?
 
 
I am waiting for an answer from TT and Whisper.
The question again: TT and Whisper say Nadal wasn't in top form when he lost to Federer three times in 2017 but he found his top form when clay started and it's not because nadal is playing on clay (lol).
 
So will he be top form if he loses on grass or on HC the rest of the year?
*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: Jun 27 06:26PM +0200


> It's not different than how Djokovic has been mopping up titles from 2014-2016 with older Federer as his only serious competition, Nadal out of form, Murray his pigeon as usual and youngsters who are terrible for different reasons. Now FEDAL(yes that's Fed AND Nadal) are mopping up titles with Djokovic under the weather and the youngsters still not good enough.
 
> The other thing is some of these youngsters are sure taking it to Djokovic lately, i.e. Zverev and Kyrgios. :)
 
> What I want to see is this Federer with a better bh and ROS meet Djokovic at Wimbledon. That should be fun! :)
 
Ah, another feeble attempt of suggesting Djokovic's 15-16
dominance was due to lack of competition.
 
 
Federer - is still the man to beat, like he was couple of years
ago. He's even older, but playing well as ever. He did make
Wim/USO finals without losing a set and a serve in 2015. Let's
see if he could do it again this year.
 
Murray was good in 2015-2016, but he is out of sorts now. Otoh,
Nadal was bad, and he's good now.
 
In 2014 Wawrinka and even Cilic established themselves as players
capable of winning against anyone when really turned on.
Healthier and more committed versions of del Potro, Nalbandian
types. We didn't have that in 2013 and earlier.
 
So, Djokovic faced pretty match top notch opponents during last
couple of years, only Nadal been missing.
 
Otoh, Murray and Djokovic are currently off, it seems. So ignoring
match up issues, Federer and Nadal are having it easier because
one extra big guy is off, compared to couple of years ago when
only one guy was off.
 
14-16 off guys, Nadal only
Now, off guys, Djokovic and maybe Murray.
 
 
It's either the same, or slightly worse in terms of competition at
the top compared to couple of years ago.
 
 
 
 
 
 
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kaennorsing <ljubitsis@hotmail.com>: Jun 27 10:11AM -0700

Op dinsdag 27 juni 2017 18:30:03 UTC+2 schreef *skriptis:
> ago. He's even older, but playing well as ever. He did make
> Wim/USO finals without losing a set and a serve in 2015. Let's
> see if he could do it again this year.
 
Fed lost a set vs Groth (who?) in 2015. The rest of his draw was quite weak up until the semi.
 
> types. We didn't have that in 2013 and earlier.
 
> So, Djokovic faced pretty match top notch opponents during last
> couple of years, only Nadal been missing.
 
Nobody considers Cilic a great. Just a cheat. Stan may be, but only really because of beating Djoker (and Rafa) in some crucial slams matches.
 
> Now, off guys, Djokovic and maybe Murray.
 
> It's either the same, or slightly worse in terms of competition at
> the top compared to couple of years ago.
 
So his only great competitor those years was Federer, who was able to regularly beat Djoker in b03-format but failed in slams because of old legs and the uber-retrieving tactics from Djoker. Of course that was the old, pre-rejuvenated Federer, as well. Let's see how Djoker deals with the current, refreshed and confident one, or if he continues to avoid him.
Pelle Svanslos <pelle@svans.los>: Jun 27 04:21PM +0300

On 27/06/2017 14.33, stephenJ wrote:
 
> Right ... if by "incite violence" you mean "said things that liberals
> didn't like". That's basically all you need to do to 'incite violence'
> from some liberals these days.
 
The right honourable Mr Heimbach disagrees with you:
 
"A white nationalist leader accused of assaulting a young
African-American woman at a Donald Trump campaign rally filed a
countersuit on Monday claiming the president directed him and other
supporters to remove protesters.
 
Matthew Heimbach claims in his federal court filing that he "acted
pursuant to the directives and requests of Donald J. Trump and Donald J.
Trump for President" and that, if he's found liable for damages, "any
liability must be shifted to one or both of them".
 
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/04/donald-trump-rally-violence-237302
 
Lol.
TT <ascii@dprk.kp>: Jun 27 04:32PM +0300

stephenJ kirjoitti 27.6.2017 klo 14:33:
 
> Right ... if by "incite violence" you mean "said things that liberals
> didn't like". That's basically all you need to do to 'incite violence'
> from some liberals these days.
 
"I'd like to punch him in the face, I tell ya."
"I will pay for the legal fees. I promise"
*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: Jun 27 06:36PM +0200

>> German box ... end of test.
 
>> You can't make this shit up ...
 
> Hollywood pricks preaching open borders and gun control from behind walled mansions patrolled by armed guards is a big reason Trump won BIG LEAGUE.
 
Amen.
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Carey <carey_1959@yahoo.com>: Jun 27 08:38AM -0700

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 8:10:46 AM UTC-7, Brian W Lawrence wrote:
 
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Yes. I think people in general prefer the grifters with a 'classy' veneer, like Mister Obama, who thought most every problem could be solved with better Bernaysian PR.
 
For where we are now here in 'murrica, I say again, Mr Trump is just
perfect.
 
 
Bernie Sanders/ Tulsi Gabbard 2020
PeteWasLucky <waleed.khedr@gmail.com>: Jun 27 09:19AM -0700

> For where we are now here in 'murrica, I say again, Mr Trump is just
perfect.
 
What did he do for us except you are a billionaire?
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