Digest for rec.sport.tennis@googlegroups.com - 25 updates in 9 topics

Saturday, June 10, 2017

calimero377@gmx.de: Jun 10 08:22AM -0700

On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 4:40:05 PM UTC+2, TT wrote:
 
> > Max
 
> After Seles was stabbed.
 
 
See?
Without The Stabbing Shrap would not have won Wim 04. Seles would have been at her peak then. No Serena Slam in 2002/03 either, BTW.
 
 
Max
Federer Fanatic <TheRelentlessTide@nospam.invalid>: Jun 10 10:25AM -0500

On Sun, 11 Jun 2017 00:50:19 +1000, Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com> wrote:
| On 11/06/2017 12:41 AM, Garvin Yee wrote:
|> On 6/10/2017 7:38 AM, calimero377@gmx.de wrote:
|>> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 4:14:07 PM UTC+2, Garvin Yee wrote:
|>>> On 6/10/2017 7:08 AM, calimero377@gmx.de wrote:
|>>>> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 4:05:38 PM UTC+2, Garvin Yee wrote:
|>>>>> On 6/10/2017 7:01 AM, Court_1 wrote:
|>>>>>> Halep just needs to continue getting as many balls back as
|>>>>>> possible and wait for the error and implosion to come.
|>>>>>>
|>>>>>
|>>>>> Agreed.
|>>>>>
|>>>>> Maybe Halep in straights....
|>>>>>
|>>>>>
|>>>>
|>>>> But maybe only in three.
|>>>> However, Ospapenko could still win it.
|>>>>
|>>>
|>>> No, I was wrong.
|>>>
|>>> Ostapemko has a flashy, hard hitting game, but Halep
|>>> is clearly more solid.
|>>>
|>>> Now fuck off, please....
|>>>
|>>
|>> Halep clearly more solid?
|>>
|>
|> Funny how tennis matches can have large swings in momentum.
|>
|> Or is this the first time that has happened?
|>
|> :/
|>
|>
|
|
|
|
| Halep had chances to lead 6-4 4-0 - will have nightmares if she loses this.
|
|
|
 
The dilemma of the defensive player against a "talent onslaught". But, yes,
it's will be devastating.
 
FF
Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 11 01:35AM +1000

On 11/06/2017 1:25 AM, Federer Fanatic wrote:
> it's will be devastating.
 
> FF
 
> -
 
 
I don't have any sympathy actually. If you can't win from those
positions then you're not really a champion & deserve to lose. I just
hope Ostapenko is cut from tougher material & uses this as a springboard
to being a real player.
 
 
 
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Garvin Yee <drsmith004@gmail.com>: Jun 10 08:33AM -0700

Haha!
 
:)
 
 
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Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: Jun 10 08:17AM -0700

On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 11:13:52 AM UTC-4, TT wrote:
> >> Dear oh dear.
 
> > Yep, Halep is a choker and she's very vulnerable to power players. Always has been.
 
> She didn't really choke...
 
Sure she did. She was up 3-0 in the second. There's that missing ingredient with Halep where she can't cross the big finish line. She had the draw from heaven, with no Serena, no Sharapova and she was up a set and 3-0 and couldn't close it out. I doubt she'll ever win a slam.
 
Credit to Ostapenko though. She seems like a Seles type player with some real talent and grit. I hope she can maintain some consistency.
Federer Fanatic <TheRelentlessTide@nospam.invalid>: Jun 10 10:17AM -0500

On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 18:14:05 +0300, TT <ascii@dprk.kp> wrote:
| Court_1 kirjoitti 10.6.2017 klo 18:11:
|> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 11:04:53 AM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:
|>> Dear oh dear.
|>
|> Yep, Halep is a choker and she's very vulnerable to power players. Always has been.
|>
|
| She didn't really choke...
 
No. She's a defensive player. Without killer shots it's hard to beat big hitters like Jelena Stapenko.
 
FF
calimero377@gmx.de: Jun 10 08:18AM -0700

On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 5:11:49 PM UTC+2, Court_1 wrote:
> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 11:04:53 AM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:
> > Dear oh dear.
 
> Yep, Halep is a choker and she's very vulnerable to power players. Always has been.
 
Halep is better than 95 % of all power players.
 
Max
Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 11 01:20AM +1000

On 11/06/2017 1:04 AM, The Iceberg wrote:
> Dear oh dear.
 
It's not her fault. Most modern players are like her, Radwanska &
Stosur. They could lose to just about anybody despite holding elite
world ranking. Halep had golden chances to wrap this up easily but was
scared of winning, seemed to have no idea how to win a match.
 
The great champions like Graf are truly exceptional.
 
Let's hope Ostapenko is more a of true pro player than the current field
& plays like the players of old.
 
Tiriac seems to be correct in saying women are 'stealing' money from the
men's game? Good luck to them making millions from this kind of
performance, but they should realize they are pretty lucky to get away
with it.
 
: )
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: Jun 10 08:23AM -0700

> > > Dear oh dear.
 
> > Yep, Halep is a choker and she's very vulnerable to power players. Always has been.
 
> Halep is better than 95 % of all power players.
 
Well she isn't better than Ostapenko because she's slamless and Ostapenko isn't.
Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 11 01:23AM +1000

On 11/06/2017 1:11 AM, Court_1 wrote:
> On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 11:04:53 AM UTC-4, The Iceberg wrote:
>> Dear oh dear.
 
> Yep, Halep is a choker and she's very vulnerable to power players. Always has been.
 
Yes, this match sums it up perfectly. She's exactly like Radwanska -
mental basketcase.
 
I guess they are rewarded with million$ so no real incentive to perform
on the biggest occasions? Radwanska has won 26 mil$ in prizemoney
alone. It's like winning the lottery.
 
: )
 
 
 
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Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 11 01:25AM +1000

On 11/06/2017 1:14 AM, TT wrote:
 
>> Yep, Halep is a choker and she's very vulnerable to power players.
>> Always has been.
 
> She didn't really choke...
 
Yep 100% choke. She had pts to lead 6-4 4-0, led 3-1 in 3rd, pts to
lead 4-1 etc.
 
Classic textbook case of being 'scared to win'. They should show these
matches to young kids so they know what being 'scared to win' looks like.
 
 
 
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Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: Jun 10 08:27AM -0700

On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 11:17:46 AM UTC-4, Federer Fanatic wrote:
> | She didn't really choke...
 
> No. She's a defensive player. Without killer shots it's hard to beat big hitters like Jelena Stapenko.
 
> FF
 
Tell that to Chirs Evert who won 18 slams with her mostly defensive style. It's that Halep is missing that champion's mentality. She was three games away from the title in the second and blew it. There's no other way to spin it.
Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 11 01:28AM +1000

On 11/06/2017 1:17 AM, Court_1 wrote:
 
>> She didn't really choke...
 
> Sure she did. She was up 3-0 in the second. There's that missing ingredient with Halep where she can't cross the big finish line. She had the draw from heaven, with no Serena, no Sharapova and she was up a set and 3-0 and couldn't close it out. I doubt she'll ever win a slam.
 
> Credit to Ostapenko though. She seems like a Seles type player with some real talent and grit. I hope she can maintain some consistency.
 
Agreed. The game needs a real woman player who is hungry & not scared to
win. There are only 2 - Serena who is pregnant & Sharapova.
 
I was angry I had to pick Halep v Stosur for the finals tip, but the
game is that bad those 2 chokers were the best picks on paper. Disgraceful.
 
 
 
 
 
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Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 11 01:29AM +1000


>> Yep, Halep is a choker and she's very vulnerable to power players. Always has been.
 
> Halep is better than 95 % of all power players.
 
> Max
 
Halep is a choker 1st class, like Radwanska.
 
We shouldn't talk about them until they win a slam or 2.
 
 
 
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Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 11 01:33AM +1000

On 11/06/2017 1:23 AM, Court_1 wrote:
 
>>> Yep, Halep is a choker and she's very vulnerable to power players. Always has been.
 
>> Halep is better than 95 % of all power players.
 
> Well she isn't better than Ostapenko because she's slamless and Ostapenko isn't.
 
Correct. Let's hope she's not another Muguruza & actually has some
ambition.
 
 
 
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Federer Fanatic <TheRelentlessTide@nospam.invalid>: Jun 10 10:22AM -0500

On Sun, 11 Jun 2017 01:15:11 +1000, Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com> wrote:
| On 11/06/2017 1:01 AM, Federer Fanatic wrote:
|> On Sun, 11 Jun 2017 00:56:17 +1000, Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com> wrote:
|> | On 11/06/2017 12:53 AM, Federer Fanatic wrote:
|> |> On Sun, 11 Jun 2017 00:47:16 +1000, Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com> wrote:
|> |> | On 11/06/2017 12:34 AM, Federer Fanatic wrote:
|> |> |> On Sun, 11 Jun 2017 00:28:18 +1000, Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com> wrote:
|> |> |> | On 11/06/2017 12:18 AM, Federer Fanatic wrote:
|> |> |> |> On Sun, 11 Jun 2017 00:06:25 +1000, Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com> wrote:
|> |> |> |
|> |> |> |
|> |> |> | I love Stan's game - best from a visual perspective this century I
|> |> |> | reckon - so always happy when he wins a slam. However I also admire
|> |> |> | Rafa greatly. He's the only clear cut surface goat/boat in tennis
|> |> |> | history, so it's a massive privilege watching this guy's career in real
|> |> |> | time. Trust me we won't see a guy dominate a surface to this extent
|> |> |> | ever again.
|> |> |> |
|> |> |> | I'd like to see Rafa make a real run at Fed's 18 slam record so this
|> |> |> | match is crucial for him. If he loses this it could be career ending
|> |> |> | for him, given he let a golden opportunity slip by in AO final. If he
|> |> |> | wins then I think he can win another slam this yr to get to 16.
|> |> |> |
|> |> |> |
|> |> |> |
|> |> |>
|> |> |> Honest response and your true motivation is revealed ;-) More anti-Fed sentiments
|> |> |> as if that's a surprise to anyone...
|> |> |>
|> |> |> FF
|> |> |>
|> |> | It's not really 'anti Fed' though, more a search for the truth. From
|> |> | what I've seen in the Fed v Rafa rivalry I have no doubt Rafa at his
|> |> | best beats Fed at his best. At least if I was forced to bet my life on
|> |> | who wins a match between these 2 guys, I'd always pick Rafa. That being
|> |> | the case why shouldn't he hold the slam record, given imo he's the
|> |> | better 'big match' player?
|> |> |
|> |> |: )
|> |> |
|> |> |
|> |>
|> |> Yes. I would want Rafa to play for my life too, but I wouldn't mind Fed either.
|> |>
|> |> FF
|> |>
|> |
|> | If I had to pick a great player to win any random match pulled out of a
|> | hat, to play for my life, then I would pick Federer.
|> |
|> |
|>
|> It sounds like your hedging your answer. Fed or Nadal for life? Let's agree
|> that either guy would be equally preferred?
|>
|> FF
|>
|
|
|
| Different questions require different analysis. If it's peak Fed v peak
| Rafa I pick peak Rafa, if random match v anybody over 10 yrs I pick Federer.
|
|
OK. If Fed and Rafa played each other for your life you would pick Rafa. I suppose
that's fair based on the head to head. Especially on clay. How about Peak Fed against Peak
Rafa on grass or hardcourt? Obviously if it was a round robin tournament where a series
of matches determined your life Fed would clearly be the choice as he beats everyone
thoroughly.
 
FF
 
ps. You find Fed unappealing as a person? Irrelevant from the tennis point of view....
 
FF
Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 11 01:32AM +1000

On 11/06/2017 1:22 AM, Federer Fanatic wrote:
 
> FF
 
> ps. You find Fed unappealing as a person? Irrelevant from the tennis point of view....
 
> FF
 
Fed is too pc for my liking, & lost too much to his biggest rival. If
he were less pc & owned Rafa I'd like him more.
 
: )
 
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Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 11 12:29AM +1000

On 11/06/2017 12:24 AM, bob wrote:
> once.
 
> bob
 
> ---
 
Agassi went 90%.
 
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TT <ascii@dprk.kp>: Jun 10 05:33PM +0300

bob kirjoitti 10.6.2017 klo 17:27:
> bottom line to me is that if stan hits hard flat corners, rafa won't
> be able to do anything about it.
 
I think he is... hit deeper, make him move etc.
 
That's what he did against Söderling in 2009 final, had great depth and
forced Söds on backfoot.
Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 10 11:47PM +1000

On 10/06/2017 10:40 PM, StephenJ wrote:
> Nadal is in Beast Mode, at his very best. And Nadal in Beast Mode at FO
> is a giant favorite over everyone.
 
> To me, whisper has it right - 90%.
 
That's my feeling. Given it's Stan I'd be very happy to be proven wrong
trust me.
 
: )
 
 
 
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Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 10 11:49PM +1000

On 10/06/2017 10:40 PM, bob wrote:
> he won 2 of 28 slams, he was in a lot of F, SF, QF. never fell off a
> cliff. djok and nadal both have multiple times.
 
> bob
 
Exactly. This is why Fed has to go in any short list of boat/goat. His
rock bottom form was perhaps only 5% off his peak. Phenomenal stuff really.
 
 
 
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bob <bob@nospam.net>: Jun 10 09:47AM -0400

On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 06:27:15 -0700 (PDT), MBDunc
>> a lot of lazy-ish, spoiled whiners who don't want to do the real
>> drudgery and road work.
 
>Men's tour is fine. No actual evidence of sudden "worse generation".
 
? we've had the same 4 guys dominating over a decade. when a top
youngster?
 
> Same could have said around 1968-69 when stars from fifties came to tour and instantly were top dogs. Rock'n roll examples like Tomic, Gulbis and Kyrgious have always been and maybe earlier (Nastase, Gerulaitis) they were actually winning slams.
 
key phrase: they were actually winning slams.
 
>But WTA ... Serena has done superb job even 2012-> ... but others? WTA marketing office surely have had horrible times for years. Whenever someone distantly looks promising - she falls, fails and fucks up multiple ways...
>WTA was in superb state around 2005-2006....
 
btw, serena still at the top is more proof of jaros' claim.
 
bob
Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 11 01:25AM +1000

On 11/06/2017 1:14 AM, Garvin Yee wrote:
 
> :)
 
Let's hope she's not another Muguruza & actually becomes a real champion
with some balls.
 
 
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Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: Jun 10 08:20AM -0700

On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 11:16:28 AM UTC-4, TT wrote:
> The Iceberg kirjoitti 10.6.2017 klo 18:14:
> > Have to say was fun to watch. She hit 64 winners!
 
> And at least as many UEs... typical women's match...
 
What are you talking about? Thiem made 31 UEs to 24 winners in his match vs Nadal and he didn't win! Where's his slam? At least Ostapenko has a slam!
Garvin Yee <drsmith004@gmail.com>: Jun 10 08:16AM -0700

On 6/10/2017 6:15 AM, Garvin Yee wrote:
 
> .....she'll be hoisting that trophy!
 
> Wow!
 
Haha!
 
:)
 
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