Digest for rec.sport.tennis@googlegroups.com - 25 updates in 6 topics

Wednesday, June 28, 2017

Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: Jun 27 08:32PM -0700

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 4:21:46 PM UTC-4, TT wrote:
> surface. It was very close to his best clay form if not the best.
> ...Rafa's best hard form was probably at USO 2010 and AO wasn't even
> close to that.
 
But the point is that everybody knows Nadal is the greatest ever on clay. Off clay he's not the greatest ever and Federer has five more Wimbledon titles than he does and and seven more hc slams. That has to count for something especially when Federer has altered his game plan a little vs Nadal and has defeated him the last three times they played on different hard court speeds.
 
If you are going to tell me you are as confident about Nadal's ability to win against ATG Federer at Wimbledon and the USO as you are about his ability to do so at the FO, I'm calling bullshit on that.
ed scheuert <bescheuertekuh@gmail.com>: Jun 27 08:54PM -0700

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 10:32:53 PM UTC-5, Court_1 wrote:
> > close to that.
 
> But the point is that everybody knows Nadal is the greatest ever on clay. Off clay he's not the greatest ever and Federer has five more Wimbledon titles than he does and and seven more hc slams. That has to count for something especially when Federer has altered his game plan a little vs Nadal and has defeated him the last three times they played on different hard court speeds.
 
> If you are going to tell me you are as confident about Nadal's ability to win against ATG Federer at Wimbledon and the USO as you are about his ability to do so at the FO, I'm calling bullshit on that.
 
Federer has beaten Nadal the last *4* times they've played not 3. Just saying. I agree with you though.
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: Jun 27 09:40PM -0700

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 11:54:37 PM UTC-4, ed scheuert wrote:
 
> > But the point is that everybody knows Nadal is the greatest ever on clay. Off clay he's not the greatest ever and Federer has five more Wimbledon titles than he does and and seven more hc slams. That has to count for something especially when Federer has altered his game plan a little vs Nadal and has defeated him the last three times they played on different hard court speeds.
 
> > If you are going to tell me you are as confident about Nadal's ability to win against ATG Federer at Wimbledon and the USO as you are about his ability to do so at the FO, I'm calling bullshit on that.
 
> Federer has beaten Nadal the last *4* times they've played not 3. Just saying. I agree with you though.
 
I know but when Federer beat Nadal in Basel in 2015 Federer wasn't displaying his more aggressive bh/ROS. Plus, in 2015 Nadal was at his all time worst.
ed scheuert <bescheuertekuh@gmail.com>: Jun 27 10:10PM -0700

On Tuesday, June 27, 2017 at 11:40:07 PM UTC-5, Court_1 wrote:
 
> > > If you are going to tell me you are as confident about Nadal's ability to win against ATG Federer at Wimbledon and the USO as you are about his ability to do so at the FO, I'm calling bullshit on that.
 
> > Federer has beaten Nadal the last *4* times they've played not 3. Just saying. I agree with you though.
 
> I know but when Federer beat Nadal in Basel in 2015 Federer wasn't displaying his more aggressive bh/ROS. Plus, in 2015 Nadal was at his all time worst.
 
OK. Fair Enough. I think Fed's performance on grass last week indicates that he's back to fresh new-Fed mode with the aggressive BH/ROS he showed at AO and the spring masters tourneys. I agree with you that Rafa's beast-mode on clay this year isn't necessarily an indicator to his performance on faster surfaces going forward.
 
It should be an exciting Wimbledon. I've had the fortune of watching Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic live at Wimbledon at Centre Court and Court 1 over the last few years and I'm just as excited about this Wimbledon as the ones I got to attend.
Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 28 07:50PM +1000

On 28/06/2017 2:51 AM, kaennorsing wrote:
 
>> Come on, anyone can see Rafa v Stan FO final was much higher standard
>> from Rafa than AO.
 
> So Rafa is as good on other surfaces as he is on clay? Oh wow, I didn't know that!
 
 
Neither did I. Why did you state it?
 
 
>But what explains the zero title defenses on other surfaces than clay, where he defends pretty much everything he plays? And shouldn't he posses the all time slam record >with about 40 slams in total by now? Instead of a measly 15?
 
He made 5 Wimbledon finals in a row no?
 
 
 
> Perhaps playing Fed, the tennis GOAT,
 
 
Fed has a legit claim to GOAT, but he was always very beatable by Rafa
no matter the surface. In fact I never considered it a true 'rivalry' -
way too 1-sided.
 
 
> at a hardcourt slam is a little more difficult to look as great against as vs Stan on clay? Particularly for Rafa, the clear clay GOAT? Could it be that?
 
That's about 5 to 10% of the equation. There is 90% more to understand
the full picture. If your 5-10% was the full picture then Fed would
have owned Rafa throughout his career, at least off clay.
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 28 07:51PM +1000

On 28/06/2017 3:01 AM, Guypers wrote:
 
>> So since you are saying Nadal is top form now, will he be top form if he loses on grass or on HC the rest of the year?
 
> Fed at peak is in a higher quantum level than peak Laver, Sampras, Kneedal on grass is like Hydrogen!
 
Imo he's below all 3 of those guys, in absolute tennis terms.
 
 
 
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Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 28 07:54PM +1000

On 28/06/2017 3:15 AM, Court_1 wrote:
 
> You know what, it doesn't matter what Federer accomplishes. These clueless souls on RST will find a way to diminish any great Federer feat. If Federer wins Wimbledon and thus establishes his GOATNESS even further, there will be a whole new barrel of reasons why it doesn't count or it's not as impressive according to these numbskulls.
 
> He's the friggin' GOAT you RST morons! If he wins this Wimbledon there will be ZERO doubt left. I really hope Federer wins this Wimbledon so you can all choke on your own bile. Please Fed, don't fuck up. You have one more big job to do!
 
Imo Rafa will beat Fed in straights if they meet & he plays with the
same intensity as FO final.
 
That's my honest opinion & not a troll post.
 
 
 
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Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 28 07:55PM +1000

On 28/06/2017 3:18 AM, Gracchus wrote:
 
>> Ok, but if Nadal somehow loses early at Wimbledon or makes the final and loses there (especially to Federer) don't go claiming his form dropped again.
 
>> The truth is his form has been incredible all year. If he's making hc slam finals he's playing some of his best tennis. Also, you said repeatedly after the AO final that Nadal's level was high in that final and that Federer grew some balls and outplayed him for once. Don't go back on that now and look like a weasel.
 
> I knew that Whisp would eventually do that after the AO. He tried to play the good sport for a few weeks about how glad he was to see Federer step up, and all that bullshit. Then after a couple of months, it's Rafa was up 3-1 and let it slip away, Rafa was playing 50% of his FO level (as if the slow red clay weren't a factor in that??). Can't keep the weasel in its den forever I guess.
 
I made these same claims straight after AO final so no backflipping.
 
 
 
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Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 28 07:58PM +1000

On 28/06/2017 3:25 AM, Court_1 wrote:
 
>>> The truth is his form has been incredible all year. If he's making hc slam finals he's playing some of his best tennis. Also, you said repeatedly after the AO final that Nadal's level was high in that final and that Federer grew some balls and outplayed him for once. Don't go back on that now and look like a weasel.
 
>> I knew that Whisp would eventually do that after the AO. He tried to play the good sport for a few weeks about how glad he was to see Federer step up, and all that bullshit. Then after a couple of months, it's Rafa was up 3-1 and let it slip away, Rafa was playing 50% of his FO level (as if the slow red clay weren't a factor in that??). Can't keep the weasel in its den forever I guess.
 
> Ha ha, exactly and he's so predictable. You could see him stewing in his juices and knew this new angle was coming to try and diminish Fed's great AO performance(one he told us over and over was a great and ballsy Fed performance!) Vomit!
 
So you want me to say Rafa wasn't up 3-1 in 5th set v Fed in AO final, &
his overall play wasn't at a much higher level in FO?
 
These seem like obvious conclusions. Why are they deemed radical &
insulting to Fed in rst?
 
 
 
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Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 28 08:02PM +1000

On 28/06/2017 3:25 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
 
> I am waiting for an answer from TT and Whisper.
> The question again: TT and Whisper say Nadal wasn't in top form when he lost to Federer three times in 2017 but he found his top form when clay started and it's not because nadal is playing on clay (lol).
 
> So will he be top form if he loses on grass or on HC the rest of the year?
 
 
 
 
Don't have a crystal ball. Was Fed in top form when he lost to 40 yr
old Haas in 1st rd on grass last week? If not, why would Rafa be if he
suffers similar loss? You can't have different standards/rules for Fed
surely? That is not fair imo.
 
I treat Fed & Rafa by the same rules. If Fed loses 1st rd Wimbledon I
will not claim Fed was in top grass form. Will you?
 
I gave you my answer, let's hear yours.
 
 
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Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 28 08:05PM +1000

On 28/06/2017 3:36 AM, Guypers wrote:
 
>>> I knew that Whisp would eventually do that after the AO. He tried to play the good sport for a few weeks about how glad he was to see Federer step up, and all that bullshit. Then after a couple of months, it's Rafa was up 3-1 and let it slip away, Rafa was playing 50% of his FO level (as if the slow red clay weren't a factor in that??). Can't keep the weasel in its den forever I guess.
 
>> Ha ha, exactly and he's so predictable. You could see him stewing in his juices and knew this new angle was coming to try and diminish Fed's great AO performance(one he told us over and over was a great and ballsy Fed performance!) Vomit!
 
> Croatian euro-trash in Europe, Oz or Bklyn, same shitpile?!? LOL
 
Please abide by rst rules - play the ball not the man.
 
Be more careful in future.
 
 
 
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John Liang <jliang70@gmail.com>: Jun 28 03:09AM -0700

On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 7:51:57 PM UTC+10, Whisper wrote:
 
> Imo he's below all 3 of those guys, in absolute tennis terms.
 
Actually who cares about this absolute term rubbish, of course it is like BOAT that sank long time ago.
Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 28 08:09PM +1000

On 28/06/2017 6:09 AM, TT wrote:
 
> Do I get credit for saying immediately after same as now?
> ...Rafa blew it, choked and gifted the match against best form ever
> doped to the gills Federer. It was a sad day for tennis and for humanity.
 
I beat you to it. My posts then are the same as now. For some reason
they are getting angry now?
 
 
 
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Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 28 08:12PM +1000

On 28/06/2017 6:57 AM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
 
> So will he be top form if he loses on grass or on HC the rest of the year?
 
> We are waiting
 
Answer posted. I'm waiting for your response.
 
You'll probably ignore it.
 
 
 
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John Liang <jliang70@gmail.com>: Jun 28 03:14AM -0700

On Wednesday, June 28, 2017 at 7:51:57 PM UTC+10, Whisper wrote:
 
> > Fed at peak is in a higher quantum level than peak Laver, Sampras, Kneedal on grass is like Hydrogen!
 
> Imo he's below all 3 of those guys, in absolute tennis terms.
 
And that higher in absolute term guy just could not defend a single non clay court title doesn't matter how hard he was picking his ass.
Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 28 08:15PM +1000

On 28/06/2017 7:26 AM, TT wrote:
 
>> We are waiting
 
> Don't you know that a player can only be top form if he doesn't lose - I
> learned that from Fedfans!
 
That's pretty much what I asked in my response. This will hurt PWL's
brain for a bit.
 
 
 
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Pelle Svanslos <pelle@svans.los>: Jun 28 10:51AM +0300

On 28/06/2017 3.48, bob wrote:
 
>> There are lots of factors to take into account. Physically I might not be in the best shape of my life, but as an overall package, I'm much better than my ranking would suggest. She is pregnant, and I'm not.
>> "I've never heard John say anything absolutely stupid. He knows his stuff. What he said about her being an incredible player is correct -- explosive, powerful and she puts in a lot of work. But I would hope that I would win.
 
> serena hasn't been a great mover past few yrs,
 
She's always been a Hippo.
Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 28 08:10PM +1000


> Come on, she has had a ton of surprising losses, especially in slams, against journeywomen. How many great come-from-behind wins has she had?
 
> Max
 
She saved mp in 3 of her AO wins, including 3 against Sharapova in a semi.
 
 
 
 
 
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Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com>: Jun 28 08:14PM +1000

On 28/06/2017 6:57 AM, arahim wrote:
 
>> At what age would Mac's 'maleness' stop being the deciding factor v peak
>> Serena? 60? 65? 70?
 
> Last year Mcenroe took at out Wilander, nine years his junior (then 48), 62 62 at the ATP Champion's Tour event. Now champions tour is not as rigorous but it does have a lot of variability in age; perhaps late 30s to forever. Mcenroe's (or for that matter anyone else's) matches against different players can give some indication of how he lines up against players 10 to 15 years is juniors. Of course not everyone keeps to same fitness levels so some younger players may be way out of shape.
 
Good point. Which leads me to another question - is McEnroe the best
ever 58+ player?
 
 
 
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Brian W Lawrence <brian_w_lawrence@msn.com>: Jun 28 10:31AM +0100

<http://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/news/articles/2017-06-28/seeding_announced_for_the_championships_2017.html>
 
 
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Brian W Lawrence <brian_w_lawrence@msn.com>: Jun 28 10:34AM +0100

On 28/06/2017 10:31, Brian W Lawrence wrote:
 
> <http://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/news/articles/2017-06-28/seeding_announced_for_the_championships_2017.html>
 
GENTLEMEN'S SINGLES
 
1 MURRAY, Andy (GBR)
2 DJOKOVIC, Novak (SRB)
3 FEDERER, Roger (SUI)
4 NADAL, Rafael (ESP)
5 WAWRINKA, Stan (SUI)
6 RAONIC, Milos (CAN)
7 CILIC, Marin (CRO)
8 THIEM, Dominic (AUT)
9 NISHIKORI, Kei (JPN)
10 ZVEREV, Alexander (GER)
11 BERDYCH, Tomas (CZE)
12 TSONGA, Jo-Wilfried (FRA)
13 DIMITROV, Grigor (BUL)
14 POUILLE, Lucas (FRA)
15 MONFILS, Gael (FRA)
16 MULLER, Gilles (LUX)
17 SOCK, Jack (USA)
18 BAUTISTA AGUT, Roberto (ESP)
19 LOPEZ, Feliciano (ESP)
20 KYRGIOS, Nick (AUS)
21 KARLOVIC, Ivo (CRO)
22 GASQUET, Richard (FRA)
23 ISNER, John (USA)
24 QUERREY, Sam (USA)
25 RAMOS-VINOLAS, Albert (ESP)
26 JOHNSON, Steve (USA)
27 CUEVAS, Pablo (URU)
28 ZVEREV, Mischa (GER)
29 FOGNINI, Fabio (ITA)
30 DEL POTRO, Juan Martin (ARG)
31 KHACHANOV, Karen (RUS)
32 LORENZI, Paolo (ITA)
 
LADIES' SINGLES
 
1 KERBER, Angelique (GER)
2 HALEP, Simona (ROU)
3 PLISKOVA, Karolina (CZE)
4 SVITOLINA, Elina (UKR)
5 WOZNIACKI, Caroline (DEN)
6 KONTA, Johanna (GBR)
7 KUZNETSOVA, Svetlana (RUS)
8 CIBULKOVA, Dominika (SVK)
9 RADWANSKA, Agnieszka (POL)
10 WILLIAMS, Venus (USA)
11 KVITOVA, Petra (CZE)
12 MLADENOVIC, Kristina (FRA)
13 OSTAPENKO, Jelena (LAT)
14 MUGURUZA, Garbine (ESP)
15 VESNINA, Elena (RUS)
16 PAVLYUCHENKOVA, Anastasia (RUS)
17 KEYS, Madison (USA)
18 SEVASTOVA, Anastasija (LAT)
19 BACSINSZKY, Timea (SUI)
20 GAVRILOVA, Daria (AUS)
21 GARCIA, Caroline (FRA)
22 STRYCOVA, Barbora (CZE)
23 BERTENS, Kiki (NED)
24 VANDEWEGHE, Coco (USA)
25 SUAREZ NAVARRO, Carla (ESP)
26 LUCIC-BARONI, Mirjana (CRO)
27 KONJUH, Ana (CRO)
28 DAVIS, Lauren (USA)
29 KASATKINA, Daria (RUS)
30 ZHANG, Shuai (CHN)
31 VINCI, Roberta (ITA)
32 SAFAROVA, Lucie (CZE)
 
GENTLEMEN'S DOUBLES
 
1 KONTINEN, Henri (FIN) and PEERS, John (AUS)
2 HERBERT, Pierre-Hugues (FRA) and MAHUT, Nicolas (FRA)
3 MURRAY, Jamie (GBR) and SOARES, Bruno (BRA)
4 KUBOT, Lukasz (POL) and MELO, Marcelo (BRA)
5 BRYAN, Bob (USA) and BRYAN, Mike (USA)
6 DODIG, Ivan (CRO) and GRANOLLERS, Marcel (ESP)
7 KLAASEN, Raven (RSA) and RAM, Rajeev (USA)
8 BOPANNA, Rohan (IND) and ROGER-VASSELIN, Edouard (FRA)
9 ROJER, Jean-Julien (NED) and TECAU, Horia (ROU)
10 HARRISON, Ryan (USA) and VENUS, Michael (NZL)
11 LOPEZ, Feliciano (ESP) and LOPEZ, Marc (ESP)
12 CABAL, Juan Sebastian (COL) and FARAH, Robert (COL)
13 MARTIN, Fabrice (FRA) and NESTOR, Daniel (CAN)
14 MERGEA, Florin (ROU) and QURESHI, Aisam-Ul-Haq (PAK)
15 PERALTA, Julio (CHI) and ZEBALLOS, Horacio (ARG)
16 MARACH, Oliver (AUT) and PAVIC, Mate (CRO)
 
LADIES' DOUBLES
 
1 MATTEK-SANDS, Bethanie (USA) and SAFAROVA, Lucie (CZE)
2 MAKAROVA, Ekaterina (RUS) and VESNINA, Elena (RUS)
3 CHAN, Yung-Jan (TPE) and HINGIS, Martina (SUI)
4 BABOS, Timea (HUN) and HLAVACKOVA, Andrea (CZE)
5 HRADECKA, Lucie (CZE) and SINIAKOVA, Katerina (CZE)
6 SPEARS, Abigail (USA) and SREBOTNIK, Katarina (SLO)
7 GOERGES, Julia (GER) and STRYCOVA, Barbora (CZE)
8 BARTY, Ashleigh (AUS) and DELLACQUA, Casey (AUS)
9 CHAN, Hao-Ching (TPE) and NICULESCU, Monica (ROU)
10 DABROWSKI, Gabriela (CAN) and XU, Yifan (CHN)
11 ATAWO, Raquel (USA) and OSTAPENKO, Jelena (LAT)
12 GROENEFELD, Anna-Lena (GER) and PESCHKE, Kveta (CZE)
13 FLIPKENS, Kirsten (BEL) and MIRZA, Sania (IND)
14 BERTENS, Kiki (NED) and LARSSON, Johanna (SWE)
15 KLEPAC, Andreja (SLO) and MARTINEZ SANCHEZ, Maria Jose (ESP)
16 HOZUMI, Eri (JPN) and KATO, Miyu (JPN)
 
 
 
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Pelle Svanslos <pelle@svans.los>: Jun 28 10:34AM +0300

On 28/06/2017 2.12, jdeluise wrote:
>> how many more matches he has to win to get there?
 
> So he's definitely peakity peak Nadal this year and yet got smoked by Fed
> multiple times and lost in a slam final to him!
 
"You can't be BOAT if you're not the BOAT of your era".
The Iceberg <iceberg.rules@gmail.com>: Jun 28 01:44AM -0700

On Wednesday, 28 June 2017 00:12:30 UTC+1, jdeluise wrote:
> > how many more matches he has to win to get there?
 
> So he's definitely peakity peak Nadal this year and yet got smoked by Fed
> multiple times and lost in a slam final to him!
 
no it's just cos he didn't play last year, he's been out of sorts until the FO final, but it's not like he was pushed there.
Pelle Svanslos <pelle@svans.los>: Jun 28 10:49AM +0300

On 28/06/2017 4.08, bob wrote:
> sitting in the basement unprotected ( and potentially hacked).
> would've been a killer. that's how obama rolled.
 
> damn, have to explain the obvious to you.
 
"Russia, if you're listening ...".
 
Lol.
Pelle Svanslos <pelle@svans.los>: Jun 28 10:42AM +0300

On 28/06/2017 3.18, bob wrote:
 
>> And when somebody comes and says he will fuck what has been achieved so
>> far, you promptly vote for him. "You did it".
 
> the coroner cutting into the corpse didn't kill the body.
 
As ever, bob the environmentalist finds excuses for fucking the
environment up. What happened to your spine?
 
 
> and syria.
 
>> "You did it". The you means you.
 
> it means EVERYONE. and you - cause you didn't stop it either.
 
This is a new one. You mean all the people around the world that don't
have a say in your elections, opinion polls and were against Bush's
silly wars in the first place, are now responsible for them?
 
By this token, every US citizen at the time was responsible for Auschwitz.
 
bob, bob, bob, ...
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