Digest for alt.sports.hockey.nhl.mtl-canadiens@googlegroups.com - 12 updates in 3 topics

Thursday, June 22, 2017

Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jun 22 05:54PM -0700

Ok, we've touched on this in past threads, but now is The Time that it really comes to the forefront. We've seen today that there was no deal secretly agreed to before the expansion draft. There is some negotiation ongoing, and it's not at all settled, given the Habs seem to be "leaking" the first ask of the Radulov camp.
 
They expect everybody to scoff at 6 yrs x $7M. Almost everybody is scoffing on cue. And that Radulov will then come back with smaller numbers.
 
But... Radulov is the best forward available on the UFA market this summer. And there aren't a lot of consolation prizes either. This might be an unprecedented free agent frenzy in terms of the lack of quality players available. I've seen teams hand out some deals that are comparably ludicrous... in years where there are 5 or 6 equivalent players available.
 
I'd have to say, if I was Radulov's agent I'd hanging tight. He probably won't actually get 6x$7M due to his past issues. But it's probably worth going to market just in case. The Habs have to be more desperate than just about anybody, it would be solid business to hold their feet to the fire.
 
l8r,
Gerry
gorgofromns@gmail.com: Jun 22 06:14PM -0700

I would be happy with 4 years at 6 mill and hesitantly agree to 5 years as long as the salary is front loaded to the first 3 years then tail off for the last three. However, 6 years is to long and I doubt there will be many, or even any, teams that will agree to that term. Actually, if that is Radu's first ask than I'm encouraged as I would say they would have expected to pay 6 mill per year, it's length of contract thats the only issue. I fear Quebec's high taxes may be the killer though. Pretty hard to compete against places that have very low tax.
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jun 22 04:35AM -0700

I imagine the updates will come fast and furious with a Radulov contract and a Galchenyuk trade... but fwiw...
 
Pacioretty ($4.5M) - Danault ($0.9125M) - Radulov (??UFA - $6M??)
Drouin ($5.5M) - Galchenyuk (??RFA - $5.5M??) - Gallagher ($3.75M)
Lehkonen ($0.839167M) - Plekanec ($6M) - Byron ($1.167M)
Martinsen ($0.675M) - Mitchell ($1.2M) - Shaw ($3.9M)
McCarron ($0.863M)

Markov (??UFA - $4M??) - Weber ($7.857M$)
Davidson ($1.425M) - Petry ($5.5M)
Jerabek ($0.925M) - Benn ($1.1M)
???
 
Price ($6.5M)
Montoya ($1.0625M)

Total: $69.176M
(Cap is confirmed now at $75M)
 
My guesses would be that they try to fix that abysmal left side of the D. The two most-rumoured trade destinations for Galchenyuk lately are Minnesota and Florida, which would most likely involve Jason Demers (though he shoots R, has 4 years left at $4.5M) or Marco Scandella (3 more years at $4M). I can certainly see them signing a bargain bin veteran UFA D like Beauchemin as well at something like $1.5M for a year.
 
So if you slotted say Scandella and Beauchemin on that D chart at $5.5M, subtract Galchenyuk, I wonder what was accomplished overall. Drouin in and Galchenyuk out is sideways, Emelin and Beaulieu out for Scandella and Beauchemin would likewise be sideways at best. I guess you could say they would have added some significant local flavour with 3 PQ guys at least. But aside from that, nothing would have been addressed at center, and the team would have lost it's best prospect in Sergachev, leaving a void where we thought the eventual replacement of Markov was covered.
 
Now, that's assuming they do indeed sign Markov and Radulov.
 
Some reports suggested that Dadonov was still on the Habs' radar, although more often he's expected to go to Vegas to join Shipachyov. I don't think a Dadonov signing salvages anything. He's generally considered more of a tag-along sidekick amongst the SKA stars, and already failed to make much impact in North America in his first go-round.
 
Bergevin will have to pull off some interesting stunts to convince me that he has managed to do anything to improve the team.
 
l8r,
Gerry
Chuck <barberphoto411@gmail.com>: Jun 22 06:47AM -0700

I think MB is chasing top 5 Entry Draft picks rather then middle of the road defencemen. That after the dust settles Montreal's first 2 picks will be a acquired high 1st round pick followed by the 3rd rounder from Buffalo
Nyssa <Nyssa@flawlesslogic.com>: Jun 22 10:40AM -0400

Chuck wrote:
 
> middle of the road defencemen. That after the dust settles
> Montreal's first 2 picks will be a acquired high 1st round
> pick followed by the 3rd rounder from Buffalo
 
The huge problem with this strategy is the total lack of an
effective and coordinated development system for picks.
 
So they'll pick another five victims, then a few years down
the road when they haven't developed "properly" to their
undefined standards, trade each one for the equivalent of
a bag of pucks.
 
Not a winning strategy. It may be a cheap one though since
the kids will be making peanuts compared to those favored
fourth line depth vets that MB keeps stocking.
 
We *had* picks, some highly talented. And what was done with
them? Talent and opportunity wasted.
 
There have been no changes made in their coaching staff in
the minors or even assistants with the big team, so what is
supposed to change besides the city the AHL team will be playing
in?
 
I'm not optimistic. Can you tell?
 
Nyssa, who is waiting to find out where her pet will be shipped
off to and what pluggers or problem children we get in return
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jun 22 08:35AM -0700

On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 9:47:09 AM UTC-4, Chuck wrote:
> of the road defencemen. That after the dust settles Montreal's first
> 2 picks will be a acquired high 1st round pick followed by the
> 3rd rounder from Buffalo
 
I don't see what assets they have to do that. Galchenyuk is it. If they trade him for a pick, the defense is a shambles. Well, the defense might be a shambles either way. I can't fathom how they could think that a top draft pick helps this team any. They've also done such a fine job of running Galchenyuk down and making their desperation to move him so apparent that I think they'll be hardpressed to even get a top pick for him, which is just crazy... he's better than most of this year's picks will turn out to be.
 
l8r,
Gerry
Chuck <barberphoto411@gmail.com>: Jun 22 09:11AM -0700

I'm not sure if the talent that is available in this years draft is impressing GMs enough, other then maybe the top two picks to convince teams to hang onto the remainder. Look how freely they coughed them up to Vegas with not much more then the status quo in return.
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jun 22 10:26AM -0700

First update is Dave Schlemko slotting in on D. So now they don't have to drop money on Beauchemin, basically. Schlemko is kind a basic utility defender, not unlike Benn minus the physicality, or like what Davidson maybe aspires to be if he can stick in the NHL.
 
A classic Bargain Bin pick up for Bergevin... at the cost of a 5th round pick, none can argue with the value. But is the team better? Hmm. Better than not having anybody, sure. 3 years at $2.1M isn't going to cripple the team, no matter what.

Pacioretty ($4.5M) - Danault ($0.9125M) - Radulov (??UFA - $6M??)
Drouin ($5.5M) - Galchenyuk (??RFA - $5.5M??) - Gallagher ($3.75M)
Lehkonen ($0.839167M) - Plekanec ($6M) - Byron ($1.167M)
Martinsen ($0.675M) - Mitchell ($1.2M) - Shaw ($3.9M)
McCarron ($0.863M)

Markov (??UFA - $4M??) - Weber ($7.857M$)
Davidson ($1.425M) - Petry ($5.5M)
Schlemko ($2.1M) - Benn ($1.1M)
Jerabek ($0.925M)

Price ($6.5M)
Montoya ($1.0625M)

Total: $71.276M
(Cap is confirmed now at $75M)
 
Next?
 
l8r,
Gerry
Jim Bauch <j.bauch@ca.rr.com>: Jun 22 12:58PM -0700

On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 10:26:54 AM UTC-7, Gerry wrote:
> First update is Dave Schlemko slotting in on D. So now they don't have to drop money on Beauchemin, basically. Schlemko is kind a basic utility defender, not unlike Benn minus the physicality, or like what Davidson maybe aspires to be if he can stick in the NHL.
 
> A classic Bargain Bin pick up for Bergevin... at the cost of a 5th round pick, none can argue with the value. But is the team better? Hmm. Better than not having anybody, sure. 3 years at $2.1M isn't going to cripple the team, no matter what.
 
It's certainly a great hockey name. I expect to have lots of fun with it. "Oh great, Bergevin just picked up another schlemko for the defense." "Can't expect Price to stop everything with just a bunch of schlemkos to help him out." If only there was a player name Schmendrik who could partner him.
 
Jim
Chuck <barberphoto411@gmail.com>: Jun 22 06:59AM -0700

I find funny commentators have described Emelin as a tradeable commodity on the verge of being traded. Maybe as part of a package but as an individual I think if the interest was there, MB would have traded him. Vegas is likely stuck with him till the 2018 trade deadline
Gerry <gerry14@hotmail.com>: Jun 22 09:08AM -0700

I'd be shocked if they can't move Emelin. For all that Habs fans have run him down over the years, the real NHL will value him more highly.
 
Vegas has some pressure to move D before assignment waivers in October, so for sure some will have to be moved. Theodore can go to the minors, and a guy who is finished like Stoner can be ignored. I would guess they tend to keep mostly the younger guys, with at least one or two veterans around for guidance. Because Schlemko has extra affordable years on his contract, maybe he and the local boy Engelland are the vets they keep around. It sounds like they might already have trade options for Miller and van Riemsdyk as younger guys, however... if so, it opens the door for a couple of the older guys to slide back up into the "keep" list...
 
Keep:
Schmidt
Merrill
McNabb
Reinhart
Schlemko
Engelland
 
Might trade:
van Riemsdyk
Miller
 
Try to trade:
Methot
Emelin
Sbisa
Garrison
 
Toast:
Stoner
 
Minors (if nec.):
Theodore
 
Ultimately it'll come down to the market. They'll get a good deal for Methot for sure. They'll try to move Garrison, Emelin, and Sbisa as impending UFA's before the deadline... the urgency to do so will depend on what the market will bear, and what they do with a couple of the younger guys like Miller and van Riemsdyk who might be traded imminently. I can see them getting a 2nd for Emelin at the deadline. If they feel they can retain salary on any of them, the market will be enormous. And why wouldn't they retain salary? They're at $74M now with an over-full lineup, and those are all guys with just 1 year remaining. They can sell them off at half their cap hits much more easily than established teams can, they don't have to replace them in the lineup with anybody.
 
l8r,
Gerry
Jim Bauch <j.bauch@ca.rr.com>: Jun 22 10:21AM -0700

On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 6:59:41 AM UTC-7, Chuck wrote:
> I find funny commentators have described Emelin as a tradeable commodity on the verge of being traded. Maybe as part of a package but as an individual I think if the interest was there, MB would have traded him. Vegas is likely stuck with him till the 2018 trade deadline
 
Well, he'll probably be more valuable at the deadline, I'll grant you that. If nothing else, there will be more teams with the cap space for him.
 
But don't undervalue Emelin. He's certainly a solid #5/6 D-man, and can play on the second pairing for a lot of teams. If he can regain his physical game (which seemed to me to fade a little recently), then there will be plenty of GMs who would be happy to add him. We make fun of Bargain Basement Bergy, but he isn't the only GM in the league who loves a boring veteran defensive defenseman who can hit a little.
 
I remember in his later years with the Habs, Craig Rivet was sort of derided by many fans as a dull, plodding D-man who was only kept around because he was Saku Koivu's buddy. The Sharks gave us Josh Gorges and a 1st round pick for him (and a 5th). And although San Jose underestimated how solid Gorges would be, they didn't get totally taken to the cleaners -- after a year and a half, they flipped Rivet (and a 7th) to Buffalo for a pair of 2nd rounders.
 
I'm not suggesting that Vegas will get that kind of deal for Emelin; a 2nd or 3rd rounder sounds more likely. As to why Bergevin didn't make such a deal himself, well: (1) MB would probably rather have Emelin than the 2nd or 3rd rounder; and (2) you gotta lose someone or something to Vegas, so if you trade Emelin, you also lose Davidson or Hudon or whoever.
 
Jim
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