Digest for rec.sport.tennis@googlegroups.com - 25 updates in 5 topics

Monday, May 15, 2017

Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: May 15 01:41PM -0700

On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 12:30:23 PM UTC-4, Patrick Kehoe wrote:

> Thiem looks like he's the guy who will win a LOT of clay court events, heading forward... made for the clay, really... likely multiple French Opens in the future...
 
Really? Tell me which tournaments Thiem has won so far? Rio? At his age he should be beating these ancient players like Nadal on clay over and over again. But instead what happens? He loses in straights every time. I posted this in another thread but the only way he will win any important clay tournament is if Nadal drops dead. He couldn't get by Goffin on clay recently in MC and yet people think he is some kind of clay titan? *rolls eyes* At almost age 24 how many slams and Masters 1000s did Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, Fed,etc. have? He's very competent on clay but he should be doing more.

> He's going to be a factor on hardcourt too,
 
Oh please! Everybody and his mother can beat Thiem on hc! Take a look at some of the names of players he's lost to this year alone on hc--Pierre-Hugues Herbert, Querrey, Goffin, Daniel Evans, Dimitrov.

> Kyrgios will have an all around game, for the most part... he's a shot maker behind that big serving game... clay will be a challenge because he's not looking like a guy who will be too interested in mega-physical matches during the bulk of his career... and fair enough... his game has other virtues (which are obvious)... but, here and there he'll make some noise on the clay, when the spirit moves him :))
 
The only younger player I find interesting to watch despite his despicable work ethic and attitude.

> Zverev will be thee all court player of this young generation... he's got the complete game... Thiem will have to use his physicality against him to gain small margins as they battle over the coming decade... and will his lean frame become injury prone? Clay tennis doesn't help with longevity, for the most part... so, Zverev will have his share of clay titles, over the next 7 or 8 seasons... contesting some FO Finals one would think... and certainly will be a key guy at the other majors...
 
He could be a force or he could be a Berdych type player or lesser player than that. We'll have to see. He's too bloody tall with toothpicks for legs and he loses focus a lot for a young player.

> Goffin is a clay courter+... he's not gifted with any MASSIVE component like the other guys, who can generate various elements of power tennis... Goffin has to be super fit, consistent, focus and play tactically water-tight tennis to get past the guys with complete games and have power facets within their tennis... so, he's going to have the more difficult and exacting time of it to make his game and what he does well solve the issues the other guys will be offering at the Masters level and the Majors...
 
Solid top ten player who can be fun to watch but that's all. He's a level 2 guy. It tells you how bad the current clay field is if he's a top contender.
TT <ascii@dprk.kp>: May 16 12:00AM +0300

15.5.2017, 23:41, Court_1 kirjoitti:
> Really? Tell me which tournaments Thiem has won so far? Rio? At his age he should be beating these ancient players like Nadal on clay over and over again.
 
That's typically unfair. It's not like Federer for example EVER managed
to beat Rafa at MC, Rome or RG. And this is a guy who made 5 RG finals,
as many as Lendl and Wilander.
 
And I don't see how Rafa's age is relevant the way he's playing
currently...
 
> Solid top ten player who can be fun to watch but that's all. He's a level 2 guy. It tells you how bad the current clay field is if he's a top contender.
 
In that case the hard the court field must be even worse since Goffin
has exactly same win% on hard.
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: May 15 02:41PM -0700

On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 5:00:55 PM UTC-4, TT wrote:
 
> That's typically unfair. It's not like Federer for example EVER managed
> to beat Rafa at MC, Rome or RG. And this is a guy who made 5 RG finals,
> as many as Lendl and Wilander.
 
It's not unfair at all. Federer lost many times to Nadal on clay but he did beat Nadal a couple of times at clay tournaments and early on he made the matches highly competitive going the distance in many of their clay encounters. He wasn't losing in straights every time. Plus, by his early twenties he was winning slams/Masters 1000s everywhere. What has Thiem won?
 

> And I don't see how Rafa's age is relevant the way he's playing
> currently...
 
I see. But when a 36 year old Federer beats a youngster you have the opposite reaction, i.e. why the hell can't this loser beat an old man? It's unprecedented that none of these younger generation players can beat these older great players. It's a problem.
 
 

> > Solid top ten player who can be fun to watch but that's all. He's a level 2 guy. It tells you how bad the current clay field is if he's a top contender.
 
> In that case the hard the court field must be even worse since Goffin
> has exactly same win% on hard.
 
There are more players who are competent on hc than there are on clay. That's only logical considering hc tournaments make up over 70% of the tennis year.
 
On clay currently there is Nadal who is the GOAT on clay and then there are level 2 players like Thiem/Goffin. Djokovic is a top tier clay player but he's in another world at the moment. Murray is competent on clay but he's in the Twilight Zone for now. Federer is competent on clay but he's absent. Wawrinka is excellent on clay but there is a good chance Zombie Stan will show up at the FO. Del Potro is good on clay so let's see if he can do anything.
TT <ascii@dprk.kp>: May 15 11:28PM +0300

15.5.2017, 23:01, Guypers kirjoitti:
 
>> Because it's disgusting cowardice. The only reason he doesn't play is to
>> avoid in-form Rafa on clay. That's not fair game and I hope it backfires.
 
> Rafa will lose to Fognini, or Thiem, ND or Delpo at the FO!!
 
Sure...
TT <ascii@dprk.kp>: May 15 11:33PM +0300

15.5.2017, 23:09, Court_1 kirjoitti:
>> during clay season anyway the way Rafa is playing.
 
>> Courtsie, is he doping or serving a silent ban? Thanks in advance.
 
> TT, shut up! I've already posted on this ng ad nauseam that I think all the top players dope. IMO this is a smart move for Federer.
 
So no silent ban then - talk about double standards!
 
So tell us, is he taking time off for doping? Worked pretty well for the
AO...
TT <ascii@dprk.kp>: May 15 11:37PM +0300

15.5.2017, 23:21, kaennorsing kirjoitti:
> Let's see how TT reacts if Rafa tactically skips Wimbledon (or any other slam) 5 years from now.
 
You reckon Rafa will skip Wimbledon 2022 to avoid Federer? I doubt it.
 
There's a difference between taking a break and avoiding your rival on
purpose which Fed is certainly doing now. Rafa never did that, hell he
even went to Basel to lose to Federer... I seem to forget Fed paying
back the compliment by attending Barcelona?
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: May 15 01:45PM -0700

On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 4:18:50 PM UTC-4, jdeluise wrote:
> > worried that a rested Federer could be a problem for Nadal off clay.
 
> I'm not sure. I'd like to start taking bets on which middling journeyman
> will beat Nadal at Wimbledon yet again this year!
 
LOL. We shouldn't get cocky like TT is getting again with respect to Nadal because with Nadal, you never know. He could lose in R2 of Wimbledon to some heavy-hitter or he could make the final.
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: May 15 01:51PM -0700

On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 4:33:15 PM UTC-4, TT wrote:
 
> So no silent ban then - talk about double standards!
 
> So tell us, is he taking time off for doping? Worked pretty well for the
> AO...
 
He's finally wised up and learned the Nadal way. How many times has Nadal skipped slams(mostly OFF clay) due to "injury" only to come back like Superman?
 
Again, why would you care if a player you claim to despise skips a slam? The reason is exactly what I posted above. You are anxious/scared about Federer vs Nadal AFTER the dirt season and it's precious!
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: May 15 01:51PM -0700

On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 4:21:05 PM UTC-4, kaennorsing wrote:
 
> Good post. Let's see how TT reacts if Rafa tactically skips Wimbledon (or any other slam) 5 years from now. He's so transparant in his emotional responses it's kind of endearing.
 
It's disturbing and comical at the same time.
*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: May 15 10:30PM +0200


>> The fact that you are so upset about a tennis player you despise missing any tournament is hilarious. The reason you are upset is because you know that once Nadal sweeps the clay season and is off clay he becomes more vulnerable and you must be worried that a rested Federer could be a problem for Nadal off clay. There, there! It will all be ok. You'll get your 10th FO and then Nadal will have four more to go to surpass Federer! Should be easy for Nadal, right? ;)
 
> Good post. Let's see how TT reacts if Rafa tactically skips Wimbledon (or any other slam) 5 years from now. He's so transparant in his emotional responses it's kind of endearing.
 
Yeah, it's not like Nadal hasn't skipped his fair share of slams.
 
Maybe smart for him, but ugly for tennis. Depleted fields, no
stars, it's always less fun.
 
 
--
TT <ascii@dprk.kp>: May 16 12:06AM +0300

15.5.2017, 23:51, Court_1 kirjoitti:
 
>> So tell us, is he taking time off for doping? Worked pretty well for the
>> AO...
 
> He's finally wised up and learned the Nadal way. How many times has Nadal skipped slams(mostly OFF clay) due to "injury" only to come back like Superman?
 
You just can't seem to answer the question fair and square. Never could.
 
> Again, why would you care if a player you claim to despise skips a slam? The reason is exactly what I posted above. You are anxious/scared about Federer vs Nadal AFTER the dirt season and it's precious!
 
And federer is so scared of Nadal during clay season that he skips it
altogether, isn't that even more precious...
 
What... a... coward.
TT <ascii@dprk.kp>: May 16 12:11AM +0300

15.5.2017, 23:45, Court_1 kirjoitti:
 
>> I'm not sure. I'd like to start taking bets on which middling journeyman
>> will beat Nadal at Wimbledon yet again this year!
 
> LOL. We shouldn't get cocky like TT is getting again with respect to Nadal because with Nadal, you never know. He could lose in R2 of Wimbledon to some heavy-hitter or he could make the final.
 
I haven't said a word about Wimbledon.
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: May 15 02:21PM -0700

On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 5:06:33 PM UTC-4, TT wrote:
 
> And federer is so scared of Nadal during clay season that he skips it
> altogether, isn't that even more precious...
 
> What... a... coward.
 
I've answered the doping question a thousand times. I think Federer, Nadal and Djokovic all dope. You could make a case for all of them on that subject.
 
The only coward here is you because you can't admit that once clay season is over for Nadal, you aren't sure about how he will do especially against a rested Federer who has improved his bh vs Nadal and who currently has the mental edge over Nadal after four straight wins.
 
Why can't you just be happy that Nadal is doing so well this year and that he'll probably get #15 at the French. If Nadal is good enough, he'll surpass Fed's slam count so what are you bitching about?
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: May 15 02:23PM -0700

On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 5:11:39 PM UTC-4, TT wrote:
> >> will beat Nadal at Wimbledon yet again this year!
 
> > LOL. We shouldn't get cocky like TT is getting again with respect to Nadal because with Nadal, you never know. He could lose in R2 of Wimbledon to some heavy-hitter or he could make the final.
 
> I haven't said a word about Wimbledon.
 
And very wisely you shouldn't after seeing Nadal's gruesome record there for the past few years.
Federer Fanatic <TheRelentlessTide@nospam.invalid>: May 15 04:25PM -0500

On Mon, 15 May 2017 22:55:30 +0300, TT <ascii@dprk.kp> wrote:
| 15.5.2017, 22:42, PeteWasLucky kirjoitti:
|> TT <ascii@dprk.kp> Wrote in message:
|>> 15.5.2017, 22:30, Gracchus kirjoitti:
|>>> On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 12:05:52 PM UTC-7, TT wrote:
|>>>> 15.5.2017, 21:43, Shakes kirjoitti:
|>>>>> On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 11:39:48 AM UTC-7, SliceAndDice wrote:
|>>>>>> :(
|>>>>>
|>>>>> Reason ?
|>>>>>
|>>>>
|>>>> Cowardice. Said earlier this year that a reason for his poor success
|>>>> against Rafa has been the scheduled beating on clay.
|>>>>
|>>>> I think Ljubicic told him that he should avoid Rafa on clay.
|>>>
|>>> It was wisdom. He shouldn't waste his time on the FO whether Rafa is there or not. He risks injuring himself in that dirt-pit when he should grab a head start tuning himself up for Wimbledon. Smart choice from the Great Man.
|>>>
|>>
|>> It could also backfire, yes he keeps h2h and aura intact but could also
|>> lose competitive edge.
|>>
|>> One could also note that he's practically giving up on #1, guess it
|>> isn't that important after all. Then again he wouldn't have won anything
|>> during clay season anyway the way Rafa is playing.
|>>
|>> Courtsie, is he doping or serving a silent ban? Thanks in advance.
|>>
|>
|> Why are you that upset that Federer isn't playing the FO?
|>
|
| Because it's disgusting cowardice. The only reason he doesn't play is to
| avoid in-form Rafa on clay. That's not fair game and I hope it backfires.
 
No. It's very smart. I never took your expertise on tennis seriously and
frankly your political ranting is even more insane. Congrads on being a loon
who apparently looks at movies all day long ;-)
 
FF
TT <ascii@dprk.kp>: May 16 12:37AM +0300

16.5.2017, 0:21, Court_1 kirjoitti:
>> altogether, isn't that even more precious...
 
>> What... a... coward.
 
> I've answered the doping question a thousand times. I think Federer, Nadal and Djokovic all dope. You could make a case for all of them on that subject.
 
You just can't tell us that Federer is doping currently without 'but all
dope'. No same problem with Nadal. Different standards and Fedcukery
instead of being 'unbiased' as you like to claim yourself...
 
> The only coward here is you because you can't admit that once clay season is over for Nadal, you aren't sure about how he will do especially against a rested Federer who has improved his bh vs Nadal and who currently has the mental edge over Nadal after four straight wins.
 
Well duh, OF COURSE it is easier to beat your opponent if you avoid his
best surface. That's why it's cowardice and unfair.
 
It also skews the h2h. Now we can say that their h2h would be even worse
for Federer if he had not avoided Nadal on clay. And this is not the
first time, he has also skipped MC in past because he didn't believe he
could beat Rafa.
 
stephenJ <sjaros3@cox.net>: May 15 04:37PM -0500

>>> :(
 
>> Reason ?
 
> Cowardice.
 
Nadal has dominated clay seasons before and Federer still always played
the FO. Nadal didn't dominate the clay season at all last year and
Federer didn't show up at the FO anyway.
 
So your explanation is suspect.
 
Mine? He's an old man and needs to pick his spots. The FO isn't his spot
like W and USO are.
 
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stephenJ <sjaros3@cox.net>: May 15 04:39PM -0500

No Federer and no Serena = :( :( for me. The FO will be a lot less fun
to watch.
 
 
 
 
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TT <ascii@dprk.kp>: May 16 12:40AM +0300

16.5.2017, 0:25, Federer Fanatic kirjoitti:
> frankly your political ranting is even more insane. Congrads on being a loon
> who apparently looks at movies all day long ;-)
 
> FF
 
This coming from someone who calls himself a 'Federer Fanatic' and
apparently supports Trump.
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: May 15 02:14PM -0700

On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 9:10:54 AM UTC-4, StephenJ wrote:

> Gracchus has made some good contributions around here, but this wasted
> verbiage on grammar has been an embarrassment to the forum and future
> readers will be stunned by it.
 
But your posts about how Wawrinka had no chance to beat Federer at the AO, a man who he has NEVER defeated on hc, won't stun future readers with their ignorance? Plus, you talk about mindless off topic things on this ng all the time, i.e. Mirka's appearance, your hero-worship of Trump, etc.
 
It's not wasted space to bring up appalling grammatical errors especially from a poster who claims to be above everybody in terms of intelligence. If you make grammar errors you are lazy in other areas of life too.
 
Plus, even if it is silly to bring up grammatical errors, it's the fact that a narcissistic guy like Whisper can NEVER admit when he makes a mistake and the grammar errors are just another example in a long line of examples of this behavior. A "normal" person would admit the error and move on. Gracchus is intentionally exploiting this narcissistic behavior and it's hilarious if you ask me.
Federer Fanatic <TheRelentlessTide@nospam.invalid>: May 15 04:34PM -0500

On Mon, 15 May 2017 21:26:04 +1000, Whisper <beaver999@ozemail.com> wrote:
| On 15/05/2017 3:24 PM, Shakes wrote:
|> On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 4:16:24 PM UTC-7, Gracchus wrote:
|>> On Sunday, May 14, 2017 at 2:09:03 PM UTC-7, Federer Fanatic wrote:
|>
|>>> When did you last visit him? He's Croatian isn't he?
|>>
|>> Really? That's pretty funny.
|>
|> Yes, IIRC, Whisper has Croatian blood in him. Not sure if both his parents are Croatian, though.
|>
|
|
|
| Yes, they are both blue chip Hrvati. I was born there, emigrated to
| Australia at age 4. Wife is part French.
|
| I consider myself a citizen of the world.
|
|
 
Is *skriptis* a long lost brother? ;-)
 
FF
*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: May 15 10:27PM +0200

>> or such nonsense. You're directly tampering with your opponent's
>> composure.
 
> Is there a youtube link to this episode ? I think I might have missed it when it actually happened.
 
 
Not that you can see his parents doing anything in particular.
 
Just that snob using it as an excuse to put pressure on his
opponent, publicly humiliate his parents etc etc.

 
Who's going to check later what actually happened?
 
Simpletons would just go along with their hero, especially since
Djokovic is "Eastern European" so his parents must be trash.

 
 
 
 
--
Gracchus <gracchado@gmail.com>: May 15 02:08PM -0700

On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 1:30:02 PM UTC-7, *skriptis wrote:
 
> Who's going to check later what actually happened?
 
> Simpletons would just go along with their hero, especially since
> Djokovic is "Eastern European" so his parents must be trash.
 
No, his parents are trash because he's Southeastern European.
*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: May 15 11:19PM +0200


>> Simpletons would just go along with their hero, especially since
>> Djokovic is "Eastern European" so his parents must be trash.
 
> No, his parents are trash because he's Southeastern European.
 
Your humor follows Djokovic's form.
--
PeteWasLucky <waleed.khedr@gmail.com>: May 15 11:36AM -0700

The 2017AO may end up becoming the most important match in his career.
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