Digest for rec.sport.tennis@googlegroups.com - 25 updates in 8 topics

Monday, May 1, 2017

PeteWasLucky <waleed.khedr@gmail.com>: May 01 06:18PM -0700

Order four racquets, two for me and two for my young teen son.
 
It will be interesting to see how difficult it will be to transition from my Wilson prostaff 90.
 
I have been using them since Sampras days but switched from the 85 to 90 when Federer came.
 
Classical racquet, stiff, heavy, you need to have great timing to utilize their magic otherwise you won't be able to play with them.
TennisGuy <TGuy@techsavvy.com>: May 01 09:47PM -0400

On 5/1/2017 9:18 PM, PeteWasLucky wrote:
 
> Classical racquet, stiff, heavy, you need to have great timing to
> utilize their magic otherwise you won't be able to play with them.
 
Can you play classical music with it too? :)
bob <bob@nospam.net>: May 01 07:53PM -0400

On Mon, 1 May 2017 16:39:42 -0700 (PDT), Court_1
 
>> bob
 
>Not if he keeps going the way he has been for 2017 and continues to make improvements to his serve and backhand (which he has!) At some point if he continues to make finals and win titles, you can't go on with the "Nadal is a lesser player" bullshit. His forehand has been more inconsistent and worse than it has been at his prime but he's trying to compensate for the forehand inconsistency with his serve and backhand. If he gets his forehand clicking (which he has on clay) he'll be hard to beat.
 
>You are just trying to prepare yourself and make yourself feel better in case Federer continues to beat this Nadal!
 
i think off clay federer will continue to beat this nadal. in fact
their last 2 matches weren't very close.
 
>If you continue with this line of reasoning and Nadal continues to make finals and win tournaments, you will sound as dumb as the Fedfuckers did when they said mono Federer was out of form in 08/09 even though he was making slam final after slam final.
 
if murray and djokovic don't make top 10 again, and we're left with
federer and nadal as the only 2 decent players on tour, i'm sure a
very substandard nadal can continue to make finals.
 
bob
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: May 01 05:03PM -0700

On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 7:53:39 PM UTC-4, bob wrote:
 
 
 
> i think off clay federer will continue to beat this nadal. in fact
> their last 2 matches weren't very close.
 
Because Federer is the better player than Nadal is off clay and always has been. If Federer doesn't have his weakness against Nadal (his backhand) and Nadal doesn't have the mental edge, of course Federer should be beating Nadal off clay.
 

 
> if murray and djokovic don't make top 10 again, and we're left with
> federer and nadal as the only 2 decent players on tour, i'm sure a
> very substandard nadal can continue to make finals.
 
Murray and Djokovic will very likely find some good form again. The field is composed of weak head cases. Federer and Nadal are taking advantage of a weaker Djokovic and Murray just as Djokovic was taking advantage of a weaker Fedal post 2014. But the point is, Nadal has made improvements to his game (serve and backhand) to try and compensate for his more inconsistent forehand and slower movement. If Nadal's fh starts clicking again as it has been on clay, Djokovic and Murray won't beat him on clay.
bob <bob@nospam.net>: May 01 08:10PM -0400

On Mon, 1 May 2017 17:03:00 -0700 (PDT), Court_1
 
>> i think off clay federer will continue to beat this nadal. in fact
>> their last 2 matches weren't very close.
 
>Because Federer is the better player than Nadal is off clay and always has been.
 
what's their H2H off clay prior to this year?
 
> If Federer doesn't have his weakness against Nadal (his backhand) and Nadal doesn't have the mental edge, of course Federer should be beating Nadal off clay.
 
it's not a mental problem for nadal, it's physical. and he knows it.

>> federer and nadal as the only 2 decent players on tour, i'm sure a
>> very substandard nadal can continue to make finals.
 
>Murray and Djokovic will very likely find some good form again.
 
ya think? :-)
 
> The field is composed of weak head cases.
 
ya don't say? :-)
 
> Federer and Nadal are taking advantage of a weaker Djokovic and Murray just as Djokovic was taking advantage of a weaker Fedal post 2014. But the point is, Nadal has made improvements to his game (serve and backhand) to try and compensate for his more inconsistent forehand and slower movement.
 
nadal may have made a change that he believes he needs to stay
relevant, and to beat the field - but it hurts him VS federer. his old
game is what is required to beat federer.
 
> If Nadal's fh starts clicking again as it has been on clay, Djokovic and Murray won't beat him on clay.
 
bob
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: May 01 05:49PM -0700

On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 8:10:44 PM UTC-4, bob wrote:
 
> >Because Federer is the better player than Nadal is off clay and always has been.
 
> what's their H2H off clay prior to this year?
 
I'm not talking about their h2h off clay. I'm talking about how Federer has 10 hc slams and 7 Wimbledons whereas Nadal has 3 hc slams and 2 Wimbledon titles. Federer is greater off clay than Nadal. If Fed's two weaknesses vs Nadal have improved (the bh and mentality) of course Fed is the favorite off clay.
 

> it's not a mental problem for nadal, it's physical. and he knows it.
 
No it isn't! Nadal's go to forehand against Fed's weaker bh doesn't work the same way because Fed is taking the bh earlier and hitting it stronger and flatter. Nadal has no plan B and Federer now has the mental edge in that match-up until Nadal can change HIS game plan.
 
 
> >Murray and Djokovic will very likely find some good form again.
 
> ya think? :-)
 
I hope not but sadly I think they will. The point is if Nadal beats Djokovic and Murray you can't say Nadal is out of form.
 

> > The field is composed of weak head cases.
 
> ya don't say? :-)
 
It has nothing to do with what is happening between Federer and Nadal.
 

> nadal may have made a change that he believes he needs to stay
> relevant, and to beat the field - but it hurts him VS federer. his old
> game is what is required to beat federer.
 
Nadal's old game isn't working against Federer because Federer has made a change to the way he was hitting his bh vs Nadal. This is basic common sense. If Fed doesn't have a weakness vs Nadal how can Nadal continue to dominate that h2h? Nadal will have to come up with another plan when he plays Fed instead of going to Fed's bh all day but the problem is going to Fed's fh won't work either because Fed has one of the best fhs ever in the game.
 
I know you are perplexed by this whole scenario but use some common sense. Without the bh weakness, Fed should be able to beat Nadal off clay more times than not. On clay I think Nadal will still beat Fed in best of five.
bob <bob@nospam.net>: May 01 08:59PM -0400

On Mon, 1 May 2017 17:49:25 -0700 (PDT), Court_1
 
>> >Because Federer is the better player than Nadal is off clay and always has been.
 
>> what's their H2H off clay prior to this year?
 
>I'm not talking about their h2h off clay. I'm talking about how Federer has 10 hc slams and 7 Wimbledons whereas Nadal has 3 hc slams and 2 Wimbledon titles.
 
but that's not what i'm referring to.
 
i've always said federer is much more consistent than nadal and that's
why he won more tournaments than nadal. but when they play each other,
at their peaks, on most surfaces, i believe rafa is a solid favorite.
maybe fast HC i'd give the nod to fed.
 
> Federer is greater off clay than Nadal. If Fed's two weaknesses vs Nadal have improved (the bh and mentality) of course Fed is the favorite off clay.
 
>> it's not a mental problem for nadal, it's physical. and he knows it.
 
>No it isn't! Nadal's go to forehand against Fed's weaker bh doesn't work the same way because Fed is taking the bh earlier and hitting it stronger and flatter.
 
it doesn't work the same way because nadal's FH isn't the same. you
admitted as much.
 
 
>> >Murray and Djokovic will very likely find some good form again.
 
>> ya think? :-)
 
>I hope not but sadly I think they will. The point is if Nadal beats Djokovic and Murray you can't say Nadal is out of form.
 
i'd normally tend to agree except that if he beats this version of
murray/djokovic it doesn't say much.
 
 
>> > The field is composed of weak head cases.
 
>> ya don't say? :-)
 
>It has nothing to do with what is happening between Federer and Nadal.
 
it has everything to do with nadal making finals.
 
 
>> game is what is required to beat federer.
 
>Nadal's old game isn't working against Federer because Federer has made a change to the way he was hitting his bh vs Nadal. This is basic common sense. If Fed doesn't have a weakness vs Nadal how can Nadal continue to dominate that h2h? Nadal will have to come up with another plan when he plays Fed instead of going to Fed's bh all day but the problem is going to Fed's fh won't work either because Fed has one of the best fhs ever in the game.
 
>I know you are perplexed by this whole scenario but use some common sense. Without the bh weakness, Fed should be able to beat Nadal off clay more times than not. On clay I think Nadal will still beat Fed in best of five.
 
it's a chicken/egg question. i'm egg, you're chicken. it's not
perplexing at all.
 
bob
Guypers <gapp111@gmail.com>: May 01 06:22PM -0700

On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 8:49:26 PM UTC-4, Court_1 wrote:
 
> > what's their H2H off clay prior to this year?
 
> I'm not talking about their h2h off clay. I'm talking about how Federer has 10 hc slams and 7 Wimbledons whereas Nadal has 3 hc slams and 2 Wimbledon titles. Federer is greater off clay than Nadal. If Fed's two weaknesses vs Nadal have improved (the bh and mentality) of course Fed is the favorite off clay.
 
Fed is the better player off clay, just stubborn with his tactics, took th e wily Croat Lubi to change Feds bh, and look 4 straight trouncing of the spaniard?!?!?
*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: May 02 01:40AM +0200


> i've been following it a little for months now, i'm not surprised le
> pen is in the runoff. fraudulent politicians are feeling it all over
> the world.
 
 
But her opponent is a true degenerate and symbol of everything
rotten and twisted.
In a way, he's an ideal candidate, showcasing with his both
professional and private life what he's all about and what he has
to offer.
 
 
Take for example this. Putin rode horse bare chested in 2007 and
it was once only.
He promoted Siberian wilderness, environmental awareness and of
course why not, vigor, strength and masculine qualities of
someone who was nearing his 60s. All positive there.

 
It was an important PR stunt as Russians more than well remember
the old corpses and inept Soviet leaders who were halfway dead
while ruling the country and senile and drunken Yeltsin too. So
that was his subtle message of telling them that he 'still has
it' even as he was becoming older.
 
Trump campaigned similarly emphasising his energy, sexual potency
and alfa qualities. Pussy grabbing etc.
 
I haven't seen much about trump, but in that failed SNL show they
kept ridiculing Putin as a bare chested guy, yet it's something
all people deep down naturally admire, respect and want. Good
health, strong body and mind. Even an adventure, why not riding
in a wilderness.
 
Otoh, this degenerate from France, whom most people privately
ridicule and perceive him as a perv, won't get nearly as much bad
treatment in msm e.g. in that SNL sketch.
Making fun of him would be considered politically incorrect even
though he's the one that people find abnormal, not someone who
rides a horse.
 
 
 
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bob <bob@nospam.net>: May 01 08:08PM -0400

On Tue, 2 May 2017 01:40:33 +0200 (CEST), *skriptis
>He promoted Siberian wilderness, environmental awareness and of
> course why not, vigor, strength and masculine qualities of
> someone who was nearing his 60s. All positive there.
 
i remember that scene, it was brought up a few times in the USA.
 
> it' even as he was becoming older.
 
>Trump campaigned similarly emphasising his energy, sexual potency
> and alfa qualities. Pussy grabbing etc.
 
don't forget telling rubio in a debate that he had no problem in the
bedroom, and questioning hillary's stamina after she feinted on a warm
day in NYC.
 
> all people deep down naturally admire, respect and want. Good
> health, strong body and mind. Even an adventure, why not riding
> in a wilderness.
 
i don't watch SNL for at least 20 yrs now so i can't say what skit
they did on putin. :-)
 
>Otoh, this degenerate from France, whom most people privately
> ridicule and perceive him as a perv, won't get nearly as much bad
> treatment in msm e.g. in that SNL sketch.
 
no, he's the media darling.

>Making fun of him would be considered politically incorrect even
> though he's the one that people find abnormal, not someone who
> rides a horse.
 
bob
*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: May 02 02:34AM +0200

>> in a wilderness.
 
> i don't watch SNL for at least 20 yrs now so i can't say what skit
> they did on putin. :-)
 
 
I've seen just a scene bare chested Putin coming out from the
chimney with gifts. It's not that bad of a joke actually, in
isolation, but when you look at biger picture, humor is about
ridiculing extremes, and pointing out to absurdities.

When all said and done, there's nothing funny in being healthy,
strong, exercising, protective, male dominant etc, you know, the
old fashioned values.
 
 
So much more material for this French guy to get ridiculed in
every way, but I doubt we'll be seeing much of it in msm.

 
 
 
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bob <bob@nospam.net>: May 01 07:45PM -0400

On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 09:49:43 -0700 (PDT), Carey <carey_1959@yahoo.com>
wrote:
 
>That kid Federer beating up on old Nadal, while no one else can do so...
>oh, wait...
>Thanks man!
 
fed has defied history by maintaining such a high level as he aged,
but don't expect others (like nadal) to be able to do so.
 
bob
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: May 01 04:50PM -0700

On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 7:45:26 PM UTC-4, bob wrote:
> >Thanks man!
 
> fed has defied history by maintaining such a high level as he aged,
> but don't expect others (like nadal) to be able to do so.
 
LOL! That`s exactly what Nadal IS doing in 2017! He`s looking like the big favorite to win the FO again at age 31. People were predicting Nadal would be dead and buried years ago and here he is number 2 in the rankings race and making improvements in his game(backhand and serve) to compensate for being slower.
bob <bob@nospam.net>: May 01 08:12PM -0400

On Mon, 1 May 2017 16:50:38 -0700 (PDT), Court_1
 
>> fed has defied history by maintaining such a high level as he aged,
>> but don't expect others (like nadal) to be able to do so.
 
>LOL! That`s exactly what Nadal IS doing in 2017! He`s looking like the big favorite to win the FO again at age 31.
 
i agree he's made a very nice comeback, when i figured he was
completely dead. but he's not the old nadal. and he is 5 yrs younger
than fed. i'm just responding to carey who's repeatedly reminding me
that fed is older. some 45 year olds are younger than some 35 year
olds, right courty? :-)
 
> People were predicting Nadal would be dead and buried years ago and here he is number 2 in the rankings race and making improvements in his game(backhand and serve) to compensate for being slower.
 
 
bob
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: May 01 05:22PM -0700

On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 8:12:36 PM UTC-4, bob wrote:
 
 
> i agree he's made a very nice comeback, when i figured he was
> completely dead. but he's not the old nadal. and he is 5 yrs younger
> than fed.
 
No, he's not the old Nadal, he's the new Nadal who is re-inventing himself due to his slower movement. His serve and bh have improved more recently. He's making hc finals for the first time in years and he's #2 in the rankings race. He's looking like the favorite to win the FO. He's holding up well for an old guy in tennis just as Federer is. They are both incredible champions.
 
If Nadal wins the FO and makes finals off clay(and may even win some off clay) you can't continue with the Nadal is done and dusted argument and is worse than Federer even though he is five years younger. He was going toe to toe on a faster hc at the AO with Federer and nearly pulled off the victory against Federer. That doesn't sound like a Nadal who is much off peak. Nadal was losing to scrubs on hc when he was in his prime!
bob <bob@nospam.net>: May 01 08:36PM -0400

On Mon, 1 May 2017 17:22:40 -0700 (PDT), Court_1
>> completely dead. but he's not the old nadal. and he is 5 yrs younger
>> than fed.
 
>No, he's not the old Nadal, he's the new Nadal who is re-inventing himself due to his slower movement. His serve and bh have improved more recently. He's making hc finals for the first time in years and he's #2 in the rankings race. He's looking like the favorite to win the FO. He's holding up well for an old guy in tennis just as Federer is. They are both incredible champions.
 
i agree. just saying that nadal has made a shift in his game that
nobody's recognizing, and it's obvious why nobody mentions it.
 
>If Nadal wins the FO and makes finals off clay(and may even win some off clay) you can't continue with the Nadal is done and dusted
 
done and dusted, no. but a shell of his former self? surely.
 
> argument and is worse than Federer even though he is five years younger. He was going toe to toe on a faster hc at the AO with Federer and nearly pulled off the victory against Federer. That doesn't sound like a Nadal who is much off peak. Nadal was losing to scrubs on hc when he was in his prime!
 
bob
bob <bob@nospam.net>: May 01 07:51PM -0400

On Mon, 1 May 2017 16:21:01 -0700 (PDT), Court_1
>> now.
 
>> bob
 
>And it's those differences that are helping Nadal make finals and win tournaments.
 
it's those differences IMO that allow him to beat weak opponents, and
stay healthy, but not play his peak game.
 
> His serve for example has been looking much better than I can remember (with the exception of the USO 2010.) His backhand has also looked better than ever. If he gets his forehand clicking (which he has on clay), he will be dangerous on any surface. He has to make changes with his serve and groundstrokes and be more aggressive (which he has been) in order to compensate for being slightly slower.
 
bob
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: May 01 05:10PM -0700

On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 7:51:53 PM UTC-4, bob wrote:
 
> >And it's those differences that are helping Nadal make finals and win tournaments.
 
> it's those differences IMO that allow him to beat weak opponents, and
> stay healthy, but not play his peak game.
 
Oh stop! You are running yourself into a wall with your statements.
 
If Nadal continues making improvements to his serve and backhand and his forehand starts clicking he will beat a healthy in form Djokovic and Murray on clay for sure! So you can't continue to use the out of form Nadal theory if that happens. Nadal is making hc finals for the first time in years so he can't be that out of form. I agree with you that his fh has been inconsistent on hc (at IW and Miami) but it looks better lately on clay and he's made improvements in other areas to compensate for inconsistent fh and slower movement.
bob <bob@nospam.net>: May 01 08:15PM -0400

On Mon, 1 May 2017 17:10:35 -0700 (PDT), Court_1
>> stay healthy, but not play his peak game.
 
>Oh stop! You are running yourself into a wall with your statements.
 
>If Nadal continues making improvements to his serve and backhand and his forehand starts clicking he will beat a healthy in form Djokovic and Murray on clay for sure! So you can't continue to use the out of form Nadal theory if that happens. Nadal is making hc finals for the first time in years so he can't be that out of form.
 
it is a testament to how very weak the tour is without djok and murray
(2 of the top 4 players of past 5 yrs).
 
> I agree with you that his fh has been inconsistent on hc (at IW and Miami) but it looks better lately on clay and he's made improvements in other areas to compensate for inconsistent fh and slower movement.
 
bob
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: May 01 05:30PM -0700

On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 8:15:54 PM UTC-4, bob wrote:
 
 
> >If Nadal continues making improvements to his serve and backhand and his forehand starts clicking he will beat a healthy in form Djokovic and Murray on clay for sure! So you can't continue to use the out of form Nadal theory if that happens. Nadal is making hc finals for the first time in years so he can't be that out of form.
 
> it is a testament to how very weak the tour is without djok and murray
> (2 of the top 4 players of past 5 yrs).
 
That's a whole other argument though. The rest of the field is weak outside of the Big Four but that doesn't mean Nadal is weak compared to Federer in their older years. Nadal is continuing to make improvements just like Federer is. Nadal was going toe to toe with Federer on a faster hc(his weakest surface) at the AO and nearly won the AO! If Nadal won the AO we wouldn't be hearing this Nadal is out of form crap from you and you know it. We would be hearing how weak Federer is.
 
Federer is the better player off clay than Nadal is. Only a fool would argue otherwise. Now Federer has improved his two weak areas vs Nadal--his bh and his mentality. Of course Federer would be the favorite off clay vs Nadal with those two improvements! Use some common sense.
bob <bob@nospam.net>: May 01 08:35PM -0400

On Mon, 1 May 2017 17:30:56 -0700 (PDT), Court_1
 
>> it is a testament to how very weak the tour is without djok and murray
>> (2 of the top 4 players of past 5 yrs).
 
>That's a whole other argument though.
 
not really. the minute djok/murray dropped and started getting upset
by nobodies, federer suddenly won his first slam in 27 and nadal's
"new style" (which is 2 notches below his peak IMO) gets him to some
finals.
 
> The rest of the field is weak outside of the Big Four but that doesn't mean Nadal is weak compared to Federer in their older years. Nadal is continuing to make improvements just like Federer is. Nadal was going toe to toe with Federer on a faster hc(his weakest surface) at the AO and nearly won the AO! If Nadal won the AO we wouldn't be hearing this Nadal is out of form crap from you and you know it. We would be hearing how weak Federer is.
>Federer is the better player off clay than Nadal is. Only a fool would argue otherwise.
 
he's more consistent over the years, but H2H IMO nadal was as good or
better than fed on all surfaces. granted it was a matchup issue, but
matchup counts.
 
> Now Federer has improved his two weak areas vs Nadal--his bh and his mentality.
 
i'm sorry, but poppycock.
 
> Of course Federer would be the favorite off clay vs Nadal with those two improvements! Use some common sense.
 
bob
Court_1 <olympia0000@yahoo.com>: May 01 04:46PM -0700

On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 7:36:55 PM UTC-4, bob wrote:
 
> a lot easier to have no fear off a shorter flatter ball than nadal's
> shots of his prime.
 
> bob
 
At the AO Nadal's fh was working very well. He was up a break in the fifth and if he won the AO 2017, we wouldn't be hearing this "Nadal out of form" argument from you. The AO match could have been won by either player, it was that close. It`s not like Federer won in straights or four. The match went on until the bitter end and Federer played better than Nadal at the very end and was going for broke. Federer broke his previous pattern. That`s why Federer won.
 
Nadal`s forehand on clay is looking lethal again and he has improved his backhand and serve. You can`t continue with the Nadal is out of form nonsense if Nadal keeps making finals and more importantly winning titles. You`ll sound foolish.
bob <bob@nospam.net>: May 01 07:55PM -0400

On Mon, 1 May 2017 16:46:27 -0700 (PDT), Court_1
>> shots of his prime.
 
>> bob
 
>At the AO Nadal's fh was working very well.
 
i mentioned the day of the AO final that nadal was hitting flatter
harder balls, something uncharacteristic. it wasn't his style, wasn't
his best strategy. never was. and it plays right into federer's
strength.
 
> He was up a break in the fifth and if he won the AO 2017, we wouldn't be hearing this "Nadal out of form" argument from you. The AO match could have been won by either player, it was that close. It`s not like Federer won in straights or four. The match went on until the bitter end and Federer played better than Nadal at the very end and was going for broke. Federer broke his previous pattern. That`s why Federer won.
>Nadal`s forehand on clay is looking lethal again and he has improved his backhand and serve. You can`t continue with the Nadal is out of form nonsense if Nadal keeps making finals and more importantly winning titles. You`ll sound foolish.
 
ok maybe nadal's playing great tennis this week, i can't say, haven't
watched.
 
but he looked so-so in that MC final VS that guy with a 137-158 ATP
record.
 
bob
bob <bob@nospam.net>: May 01 07:50PM -0400

On Mon, 1 May 2017 18:56:49 -0400, TennisGuy <TGuy@techsavvy.com>
wrote:
 
>Do you think we will still be talking about Federer and Nadal here
>on rst like we are today?
 
maybe. sampras/agassi lingered for many yrs.
 
>Not for their playing records, but for their current playing on the courts?
>No one would have thought ten years ago that Federer and Nadal would be
>stealing headlines here on rst ten years later like they are today!
 
i like it, but i would like eventually to see some new blood.
 
bob
bob <bob@nospam.net>: May 01 07:48PM -0400

On Sun, 30 Apr 2017 21:08:12 -0700 (PDT), RaspingDrive
 
>> that's sarcastic.
 
>> bob
 
>This thread can't end so tamely. Why did Sampras not want to win Wimbledon 2001?
 
sampras didn't care about tennis very much after wim 2000. it was his
pinnacle. he broke a record, he won a 7th wimbledon, he achieved his
career's dream. he lost motivation, he developed some back injuries
and he barely trained, while considering retirement. i know cause i
know his trainers.
 
it's not that he didn't "want" to win any slams in 2001 it's that he
didn't care or train too much for 1.5 yrs. the ONLY reason he even
gave much effort in spring 2002 was he was feeling disrespected by the
press.
 
bob
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