Digest for rec.sport.tennis@googlegroups.com - 25 updates in 9 topics

Monday, May 1, 2017

*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: May 01 06:17PM +0200

>> He makes wim final without losing a set, and USO final without
>> losing a serve.
 
> Like Sampras had a bleak so-called two year period but served very well in the middle of the bleak period.
 
If you serve very well then you don't lose serve very often.
 
I think you're too much into stats for that match which is
obviously misleading.
What does serve speed mean if Sampras wasn't able to put good spin
on his serve?
What's serve percentage good for if he does it with a lousy placement?
 
Not much really.
 
 
To factor in Sampras being burnt out and out of sorts at the time
means to realize he probably wasn't at his best regarding mixing
serve, having idea etc.
 
 
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RaspingDrive <raspingdrive@gmail.com>: May 01 10:37AM -0700

On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 12:30:03 PM UTC-4, *skriptis wrote:
 
> To factor in Sampras being burnt out and out of sorts at the time
> means to realize he probably wasn't at his best regarding mixing
> serve, having idea etc.
 
Compare Federer of 2005 at USO with Federer of 2008 at USO. The carefree shot making of 2005 was perceptibly replaced with more calculated 'rapier thrusts'. Now move forward to 2015. He has been playing for 12 years from the 2005 instance. Is it likely he lacked the same stamina as in 2005? No? Enter Stan with his carefree approach and he decimates Novak. You fill in the missing blanks.
stephenJ <sjaros3@cox.net>: May 01 01:04PM -0500

> On 5/1/2017 7:12 AM, Whisper wrote:
 
> If you're going to say Rafa & Fed both won Olympic gold, then you have
> to say Woodridge is greater at Wimbledon than Federer.
 
Incorrect. In non-Olympic tennis, singles is far more important than
doubles.
 
But in Olympics culture, gold is gold, no matter what you win it in.
You'll never hear athlete X saying to athlete Y "I won gold in the men's
400 meter sprint and yours is for women's field hockey, so mine is
better". That's not the way it is.
 
Why do you think Venus, who knows something about Wimbledon singles
titles and gold medals, entered the Olympic mixed doubles last year
after she crashed out of doubles? Because she wanted a Gold Medal, no
matter what it is in.
 
That said, yes, any tennis player would rather win gold in singles than
doubles, but the gap is narrow, tiny, because gold is gold. Whereas at
Wimbledon, doubles is nothing compared to singles.
 
 
 
 
 
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The Iceberg <iceberg.rules@gmail.com>: May 01 11:07AM -0700

On Monday, 1 May 2017 18:37:56 UTC+1, RaspingDrive wrote:
> > means to realize he probably wasn't at his best regarding mixing
> > serve, having idea etc.
 
> Compare Federer of 2005 at USO with Federer of 2008 at USO. The carefree shot making of 2005 was perceptibly replaced with more calculated 'rapier thrusts'. Now move forward to 2015. He has been playing for 12 years from the 2005 instance. Is it likely he lacked the same stamina as in 2005? No? Enter Stan with his carefree approach and he decimates Novak. You fill in the missing blanks.
 
he decimated Djoker mostly cos Djoker was nervous.
The Iceberg <iceberg.rules@gmail.com>: May 01 11:08AM -0700

On Monday, 1 May 2017 12:45:10 UTC+1, John Liang wrote:
 
> > But when Fed makes Wimbledon final in straight sets but loses to Rafa
> > it's because he had mono?
 
> But Fed made 10 Wimbledon finals how many W final was Nadal in ? Did he have a broken leg or some sort of injury that effect him with losses to guys like Darcis ?
 
you said it wasn't scientifically possible for Nadal to EVER in history get to the final of the USO and he won it not just once, but twice, he must be FRAKIN AMAZING!
The Iceberg <iceberg.rules@gmail.com>: May 01 11:16AM -0700

On Monday, 1 May 2017 12:45:10 UTC+1, John Liang wrote:
 
> > But when Fed makes Wimbledon final in straight sets but loses to Rafa
> > it's because he had mono?
 
> But Fed made 10 Wimbledon finals how many W final was Nadal in ? Did he have a broken leg or some sort of injury that effect him with losses to guys like Darcis ?
 
yes but everyone knows guys like Darcis play out of their skin when they play Nadal and totally fold when playing Fed, prob cos they are threatened and all made to vote for him in the Sportsmanship award thing.
The Iceberg <iceberg.rules@gmail.com>: May 01 11:04AM -0700

On Monday, 1 May 2017 05:54:20 UTC+1, Court_1 wrote:
 
> > > Saw the 3rd, best match on clay so far.
 
> > What was Thiem's theme against Rafa? Disappointing to lose it 6-1 in the second.
 
> Thiem is overrated. I've been saying that for a long while. He's the Simona Halep of the ATP.
 
have you? thought it was only me! he's not so much as overrated, more he puts so much effort into that fh that he's totally knackered by the end of a tournament.
kaennorsing <ljubitsis@hotmail.com>: May 01 08:27AM -0700

For those who don't understand why he's always voted sportsman of the year by his colleagues... It's encapsulated perfectly in this interview after the charity match for Africa;
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h3XF1vF7Y8
 
Everything put together; nobody's been a better representative for tennis, period. It's a no-brainer. It's the GOAT.
*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: May 01 05:45PM +0200

> For those who don't understand why he's always voted sportsman of the year by his colleagues... It's encapsulated perfectly in this interview after the charity match for Africa;
 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h3XF1vF7Y8
 
> Everything put together; nobody's been a better representative for tennis, period. It's a no-brainer. It's the GOAT.
 
A true sportsman would have come over to umpire in 2015 USO final,
asked for mic and asked the crowd to respect his opponent during
his serve, or in between serves, and stop distracting him.
Aplauding after point is one thing, it's showing your preference
but interfering with serve is an abuse and an attempt to unfairly
influence the result.
 
 
Djokovic was similarly abused in Davis cup QF in Croatia which I
was watching live and Ljubicic did exactly this. Asked the mic
and asked us to behave.
 
That's sportsmanship.
 
 
 
So no, I don't see Federer as someone worthy of that reward and
all those accolades. Let's face it, he's getting them because
he's successful and popular, not because he really is a true
sportsman.
 
 
If he had Nishikori's results nobody would even think of him.
 
 
 
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kaennorsing <ljubitsis@hotmail.com>: May 01 09:17AM -0700

Op maandag 1 mei 2017 18:01:04 UTC+2 schreef *skriptis:
> was watching live and Ljubicic did exactly this. Asked the mic
> and asked us to behave.
 
> That's sportsmanship.
 
 
No, it's not. Two different situations entirely. Davis Cup against home crowd, while losing or neatral ground while winning against the sentimental favourite. Totally different. Besides, why hold anyone (or just Federer?) to such a silly standard? This never happens.
 
> So no, I don't see Federer as someone worthy of that reward and
> all those accolades. Let's face it, he's getting them because
> he's successful and popular,
 
Sooo.... why do you think he's popular? And why can't Novak do the same?
*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: May 01 06:43PM +0200

>> all those accolades. Let's face it, he's getting them because
>> he's successful and popular,
 
> Sooo.... why do you think he's popular? And why can't Novak do the same?
 
I don't care why Novak can't do "the same". We've been over that
many times. There are reasons, some of which are his fault
(boring style, wanting to be liked much etc) and there are
reasons for he is not to be blame, he's disliked because he broke
the perfect fedal rivalry and came third as a party-breaker,
ripped off some shirts, and of course there's a matter of ethnic
and cultural proximity or distance to Anglophone/Francophone
world where Federer is perfectly in Nadal is the welcomed
outsider with is Hispanic roots.
 
But popularity is not the issue here. You are talking about the
fans. Fans don't care about fair play, they want their guy to
win.
 
But talking about sportsmanship I can't have Federer as a
sportsmanship role model after many things he's done and
certainly not after that USO final.
 
He didn't break any rule, but don't paint him a sportsmanship role
model or I'll vomit.
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RaspingDrive <raspingdrive@gmail.com>: May 01 10:52AM -0700

On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 12:01:04 PM UTC-4, *skriptis wrote:
> he's successful and popular, not because he really is a true
> sportsman.
 
> If he had Nishikori's results nobody would even think of him.
 
Many valid points, Skriptis. A recent incident comes to mind: Stan serves an ace at IW 2017 but doesn't challenge a wrong call by the linesman. Federer also signaled the ball as out, which he should not have done, IMO.
The Iceberg <iceberg.rules@gmail.com>: May 01 11:01AM -0700

On Monday, 1 May 2017 18:52:16 UTC+1, RaspingDrive wrote:
> > sportsman.
 
> > If he had Nishikori's results nobody would even think of him.
 
> Many valid points, Skriptis. A recent incident comes to mind: Stan serves an ace at IW 2017 but doesn't challenge a wrong call by the linesman. Federer also signaled the ball as out, which he should not have done, IMO.
 
Using the F-Word, live in the Wimbledon final, ruining the innocence of millions of innocent children, should be reason enough! Also don't forget that more people were upset that I lost in the final than people were happy that Nadal won! LOL Fed even won this sportsmanship award when he smashed his racquet to bits the other year, that said it all to me. It a funny award, can you imagine if they asked McEnroe, Nastase and Connors to vote on such a thing!
Carey <carey_1959@yahoo.com>: May 01 08:25AM -0700

It's all about the att
Carey <carey_1959@yahoo.com>: May 01 08:30AM -0700

It's all an attempt to diminish Roger Federer, with his Eighteen Majors, all the time. That is the Usual Few's only objective. Why, I don't know, as their given reasons are spurious. Maybe they are well-paid?
 
It's fun to watch!
*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: May 01 06:27PM +0200

>> on era. It's not irrelevant today as well. All big 4 worked hard
>> and wanted to win it as well, even if it's just once.
 
> It is irrelevant as it is a team event. Anders Jarryd was a member of Sweden's Davis Cup team that won Davis Cup in 84,85,87 so that would make him a 3 major winner and a greater player than say a lot of people with one slam win.
 
 
Well DC title enables you to qualify for participation in senior
tour. You didn't know that? So obviously it's huge.

 
And yes Jarryd is quite a name in tennis history.
 
 
 
 
 
>> For all time purposes it's quite good. It's nothing official like
>> 7543, just fun.
 
> It is stupid, how many people think Emerson is a greater player than Nadal and Djokovic with his '20' major wins. or Rosewall greater than Federer and Sampras with his '28' majors ?
 
 
Or you dumb or what?
I said weighing is impossible. But obviously guys with 15+ are
goat contenders, not the guys with less than 15.

 
 
>Davis Cup used to bring the best amateur players into a team competition, but since the 90s top players regularly opting out of Davis Cup ties to give them extra rest and place more priority on regular tour events. .
 
I didn't know that. Tnx.
 
Care to explain why del Potro, Murray, Federer, Wawrinka,
Djokovic, Berdych have won it in recent years, with Nadal as
well.
 
 
 
 
 
 
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RaspingDrive <raspingdrive@gmail.com>: May 01 10:43AM -0700

On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 8:01:02 AM UTC-4, *skriptis wrote:
> certainly in no format before ATP era began.
 
> So Federer's 50 big titles in atp era are not something you can
> use ro compare him with e.g. Cochet.
 
Does Cochet come out on top after such a futile exercise?
Carey <carey_1959@yahoo.com>: May 01 08:21AM -0700

On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 8:00:10 AM UTC-7, PeteWasLucky wrote:
 
 
> You will have to think what Icy would have said if it was Murray that won the AO 2017 beating Nadal in the final.
 
 
Yes, good thought.
*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: May 01 06:51PM +0200


>> > Clueless W back again! To answer your question, all Fed fans wish he had bagged the Wim 2008. But on one that I know wished he'd win the FO 2008. So, I take it your joining the bandwagon (Rafa-is-out-of-sorts) is imminent?
 
>> Except Nadal is clearly out of sorts, you only have to watch him play the past 3 years - didn't see him at Monte Carlo, but certainly before he was and at AO he was well out of sorts.
 
> Rafa was 'out of sorts' on HC until the end of 2008 as well. Then he beat Gonzalez, Simon, and Verdasco (compare: Zverev, Raonic, Dimitrov) to reach final and then beat Federer to have the 'out of sorts' tag removed and 'champion' tag inserted. On the other hand, he gains momentum in beating Zverev, Raonic, and Dimitrov only to get beaten by Federer in the final and now it was safe to remove the 'champion' tag and insert the 'out of sorts' tag. This kind of versatility came handy during the period following the 2010 USO win and 2013 USO win as well. The period between AO 2009 and USO 2010 could be easily ascribed to 'injury' hence also 'out of sorts'. Only Nadal can be blasted out of court each time and have the unique distinction of being 'out of sorts' EACH time the decimation was inflicted. The key word is EACH.
 
The only time I've seen fully healthy rafa being blown off the
court was by Tsonga in 08.
He was injured in his match vs del Potro at USO 09
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RaspingDrive <raspingdrive@gmail.com>: May 01 10:40AM -0700

On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 1:01:02 PM UTC-4, *skriptis wrote:
> court was by Tsonga in 08.
> He was injured in his match vs del Potro at USO 09
> --
 
Murray did much damage to him at USO 2008 semis. Stan damaged him in 2014. Djok did it at USO 2011. That Italian did it in 2015.
RaspingDrive <raspingdrive@gmail.com>: May 01 10:28AM -0700

On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 12:48:08 AM UTC-4, Court_1 wrote:
> On Sunday, April 30, 2017 at 11:50:25 PM UTC-4, RaspingDrive wrote:
 
> > The AO 2017 win is a compelling win for Federer. What is intriguing though is that it was played against someone who is both at the same time: one who is reputed to produce champion's play on HCs but at the same time is also curiously 'out of sorts' when he loses.
 
> Ha ha. The agendas are strong with most fans. *cough cough Bob* Nadal looked strong to me in the AO final vs Federer. Nadal was up a break in the fifth for goodness sake. That final was one case where Federer took it from Nadal by going with all out aggression in the fifth. However to be fair, I do think Nadal didn't look as formidable vs Fed at IW and Miami. He was hitting way too short and missing routine forehands. On clay thus far he's looking quite ferocious.
 
Icey and co are right in a way, that Nadal is 'out of sorts'. Consider this: Visions of holding the 15th slam, second CGS, victor in a legacy match against arch rival etc vanished in 20 minutes of 'Fedazzle'. Any one, Nadal included, can assume the 'out of sorts' avatar when subjected to such a devastating loss. At IW, Federer continued serving immaculately and Nadal dutifully caved in. He offered a stiffer resistance at Miami but it was not enough.
*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: May 01 06:49PM +0200

>> Carlo vesely loss and Murray too was already in monte Carlo
>> battling Nadal losing in three, beating him in Madrid etc.
 
> Remember Djokovic has not played since MC so we need to see what sort of form he will be in at Madrid and Rome.
 
 
Of course. Let's wait.
But as of know, predicting from this point and having an insight
about these these guys, and how do they play and react, I don't
believe Djokovic or Murray.
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*skriptis <skriptis@post.t-com.hr>: May 01 06:47PM +0200


>> But Wawrinka is extremely different player to any of the big 4.
>> Won 3 slams, 1 ATP1000. So 3 slams per ATP1000.
 
> Well, Federer just won AO this year with no tournament play this year.
 
But Federer build up his confidence by not playing with anyone and
not losing any matches before AO. Especially against Nadal. He
himself admitted it was a key thing for him.
 
 
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calimero377@gmx.de: May 01 09:28AM -0700

On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 2:58:47 AM UTC+2, Carey wrote:
> to position himself as an 'outsider'. Let's see: Worked for Rothchilds, attended
> the Bilderberg Conference, and was the hapless Hollande's Finance Minister.
 
> Sounds like an outsider to me... /s
 
 
Melenchon:
""I say to anyone who is listening: do not make the terrible error of voting for the National Front because you would push the country towards a general conflagration and the ending to which no-one can predict."
 
Oh shit, Careydummy ...
 
 
Max
Carey <carey_1959@yahoo.com>: May 01 08:13AM -0700

Decent stuff here, for anyone interested:
 
https://www.thelocal.fr/20170501/frances-le-pen-on-offensive-with-vote-a-week-away
 
 
 
Sanders/Stein 2020
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