Digest for alt.sports.football.pro.sf-49ers@googlegroups.com - 6 updates in 3 topics

Wednesday, May 24, 2017

Seatirds <seatirds@seattle.com>: May 25 04:33AM +0200

"Is Seattle trying to win the media, or are they trying to win
"And this is funny about Pete Carroll. Pete Carroll, at USC, I
was there every game. They got very loose at the end. Agents
everywhere, celebrities everywhere, extra coaches, sloppy
recruiting. Pete's last two USC recruiting classes were whiffs
everywhere. They got real loose.
"And I like Pete, I think he's a hell of a football coach, but
Saban and Belichick control the information going out. So did
[Schembechler], so did Lombardi, so did Parcells. They
controlled it. And Pete's got a different thing."
Benard Atkins <batkins700@gmail.com>: May 24 07:36AM -0700

On Tuesday, May 23, 2017 at 6:14:23 PM UTC-7, John Walsh wrote:
> >You ever watch Jet receivers run routes?
> What routes, they looked like running routes was an option not a job,
> but, there's not defense for the way Fitzpatrick played.
The Franchise Quarterback: few and far between.
John Walsh <jwalsh589@gmail.com>: May 24 03:58PM -1000

On Wed, 24 May 2017 07:36:02 -0700 (PDT), Benard Atkins
>> What routes, they looked like running routes was an option not a job,
>> but, there's not defense for the way Fitzpatrick played.
>The Franchise Quarterback: few and far between.
Benard Atkins <batkins700@gmail.com>: May 24 07:33AM -0700

"You watch him on tape, and he never has been able to progress," a quarterbacks coach says. "Greg Roman and Jim Harbaugh really made him. He needs to run that system. And that system lasted for two years. Washington took the idea and did it with RG III. Colin thrived in that. And then it took defenses one offseason to figure out how to shut it down. That is why you don't see it any more. You get your quarterback belted, so it just isn't a viable option. And then with Colin now, he is slimmer, and he has never been an accurate passer. You take away the element of being able to run the ball, and he can't throw it, I mean, then what do you have left? There are many other better options."
Seatirds <seatirds@seattle.com>: May 25 01:09AM +0200

Colin Kaepernick's journey from fresh-faced upstart to $126
million sensation to NFL pariah has unfolded without evaluators
fundamentally changing what they thought about his skills.
What has changed, acutely, is how evaluators perceive
Kaepernick's mindset and prospects for development. Although
those perceptions changed long before Kaepernick, a free agent,
ever knelt during an anthem in the name of social justice, his
controversial protests are obviously a significant part of this
multi-variable equation.
My notes from four years of conversations with 21 league
insiders form an oral history of a career that is both
remarkable and confounding.
December 2013
It has been a year since Kaepernick took the league by storm,
helping the 49ers come oh-so-close to winning Super Bowl XLVII.
With another postseason approaching, San Francisco improves to 9-
4 with a 19-17 victory over the eventual Super Bowl champion
Seahawks at Candlestick Park. Kaepernick completes 15 of 29
passes for 175 yards in a defensive battle. In the bigger
picture, thoughts begin turning toward the type of deal
Kaepernick might command in 2014, relative to what other young
quarterbacks might get. The gap between public perception and
league perception seems significant.
"When I watch Russell Wilson play, I can adamantly say everyone
in the league missed on him, including the Seahawks," a GM from
another team says at the time. "He is the guy, and you do
whatever to keep him. You watch Colin Kaepernick -- that is the
farthest thing from the truth. You like some things, but there
is so much inconsistency. Russell Wilson is a great decision-
maker, smart, great arm, great touch, can throw with timing and
anticipation, and on top of that, he has great lateral
quickness. To me, Colin Kaepernick has a bazooka for an arm, but
you don't see all-the-time great ball placement. Everything is a
90 mph fastball with him."
Meanwhile, an agent says he wasn't convinced that the 49ers were
"all-in" on Kaepernick. There were rumblings that 49ers coach
Jim Harbaugh, Kaepernick's highest profile defender in public,
would prefer a more prototypical quarterback.
"I don't think he's a very good quarterback," a contract
negotiator says of Kaepernick. "I think he is an incredible
athlete. He won the Green Bay game [2012 playoffs] because he
was an athlete. Seattle exposed him. Play zone and give him
windows, he can rip it. Play man and get physical with his
receivers, he is not Peyton dissecting the D. ... There are very
smart people in the NFL who coach up defenses. You might get
them the first time, but not consistently. I'm not sure what San
Francisco does because Harbaugh has shown he can plug in anyone.
[Offensive coordinator] Greg Roman has done a great job."
Colin Kaepernick's 184-yard rushing performance against Green
Bay in the 2012 playoffs helped put him on the map. Robert
Hanashiro/USA TODAY Sports
January 2014
Kaepernick's star takes a hit in the NFC Championship Game when
Malcolm Smith intercepts his late pass to Michael Crabtree,
sealing Seattle's victory. It's the second consecutive season in
which San Francisco makes a deep playoff run with Kaepernick
behind center. There's no doubt that he has overtaken Robert
Griffin III among young dual-threat QBs, but he's still chasing
"RG III and Kaepernick are similar from the standpoint of, if
you have them as your QB, you get nervous every Sunday, but the
things they can do physically are so unique that, as a defense,
you cannot scheme them," a former GM says. "Kap is a damn good
player. He lost two of three to Seattle when it mattered, but
still, the guy is a good player. I'm sitting there watching him
run 55 yards on them. They have good defensive players, and they
could not tackle him."
May 2014
An informal poll of defensive backs produces harsh feedback on
Kaepernick. It turns out that DBs respect quarterbacks who can
consistently win with their arms.
"I mean, he is a guy who is OK, but you look at his game, and
it's his legs," one safety says. "He has a strong arm -- don't
get me wrong -- but I don't know if he can make every throw."
June 2014
The 49ers sign Kaepernick to a six-year, $126 million deal.
Kaepernick becomes the first quarterback from the 2011 draft to
sign a lucrative extension (San Francisco winds up paying
Kaepernick not quite $40 million of that total). Cam Newton and
Andy Dalton will sign multiyear extensions down the line.
"I don't think Andy Dalton is near Kaepernick," a GM says. "You
don't worry about Andy Dalton when you get ready to play those
guys. With Colin, he can beat a defense with his arm. Now, does
he read coverages great? No. But if things are clicking for him,
he can throw fastballs. He can overpower a defense with his arm,
and he's had some great games. You look at New England two years
ago, he went up and down the field. Green Bay, one time he beat
them throwing, another time he beat them running."
A defensive coordinator praises Kaepernick for finding ways to
win in 2013, even when some key players were injured.
"Those kinds of guys who show that type of grit at quarterback,
as a defensive coach, that does have a factor to me," the
coordinator says. "It is not all based on their stats.
Kaepernick, from a throwing sense, I don't know if he will be
regarded in the same neighborhood with those [top-tier] guys. He
might play to his ceiling and be really good."
"When I watch Russell Wilson play, I can adamantly say everyone
in the league missed on him, including the Seahawks. He is the
guy, and you do whatever to keep him. You watch Colin Kaepernick
-- that is the farthest thing from the truth."
An NFL GM (December 2013)
July 3, 2014
Kaepernick ranks 14th among starting quarterbacks in my first
annual Quarterback Tiers survey of coaches and evaluators. He is
the lowest-rated player in the second of five performance tiers,
but the arrow is presumably pointing up. His 2.5 average in a
poll of 26 league insiders places Kaepernick between Matthew
Stafford and Cam Newton.
"He can affect the game on so many levels," a defensive
coordinator says. "He's been to a Super Bowl, been in a
championship game. He has kind of revolutionized some stuff. He
is a different kind of [second-tier QB] than most of them, more
July 8, 2014
Which young quarterbacks might one day ascend into the top tier?
Kaepernick appears with Cam Newton, Russell Wilson and Matthew
Stafford in a 2014 Quarterback Tiers postscript. A theme is
emerging. Defensive coaches fear what Kaepernick can do to their
schemes, while offensive coaches fear the sinking feeling they
would have if forced to play from behind with a running
quarterback at the controls.
"I don't think [Kaepernick] can throw it well enough [to become
top tier]," a coordinator says. "He throws one kind of ball:
flat and hard. You miss out on touch throws, arm angles, those
kinds of things. But if anybody can get really close, he can,
because he is a wonderfully high-character person who has not
been changed an ounce by what has happened to him. He is a
breath of fresh air as a person -- a better person than player --
and I think that really will go a long way for consistency over
A veteran defensive starter who played with Kaepernick concurs
during a conversation at training camp. This is by no means a
league-consensus view, but the tone regarding Kaepernick has
never been as optimistic, before or since.
"I think Kap can be a one," this defensive starter says,
referring to the top tier, "but it is going to have to be them
taking the training wheels off and allowing him to do what he
can do. If they allow Kap to really run the thing, get away from
the run a little bit more, I believe he can be a one because he
has all the tools, and he scares defensive coordinators to
death. Just being back there in the pocket, he can run and beat
you for 80, or he can throw it and beat you for 80. He is wired
right. He is the hardest worker on that football team -- hands
down. I can confirm that. He wants to be one of those great
guys. It is a matter of him going out there and doing it."
Colin Kaepernick's rushing ability always worried opposing NFL
coaches. AP Photo/Charlie Riedel
Dec. 13, 2014
The 49ers are two games into a four-game losing streak in what
will be Jim Harbaugh's final season with the team. They will
suffer a 17-7 defeat at Seattle the next day. By now, Kaepernick
has incurred NFL fines for swearing on the field and wearing
headphones to news conferences in violation of a league
sponsorship agreement.
"Kaepernick never makes the refined play," a defensive assistant
coach says. "He throws the ball only one way. He is a huge
limitation. It is fun when you can have him run around, but he
cannot beat the zero blitz to win the game."
March 2015
With Robert Griffin III's injuries catching up to him and draft
talk focused on how Marcus Mariota might fit in a pro-style
offense, an offensive coordinator projects the outlook for
Kaepernick, another quarterback known as much for his legs as
for his arm.
"There are two things," the coordinator says of run-dependent
quarterbacks. "When you pay [the quarterback] and the defense
goes to the middle of the pack, are they good enough passers?
And then the toll of the hits over time. Those things will
determine the longevity of a guy in that offense."
June 2015
Harbaugh is long gone from San Francisco at this point, having
departed as part of a 49ers shakeup announced Dec. 29, and the
49ers' roster has deteriorated markedly. A veteran coach with
ties to the former staff saw disconcerting changes to Kaepernick
in 2014.
"Kap went off the reservation last year, fundamentally," this
coach says. "He got a little bit diva delusional and forgot what
got him there. Harbaugh was an enabler for him. That was his
guy. That was a tough situation."
"Kaepernick never makes the refined play. ... It is fun when you
can have him run around, but he cannot beat the zero blitz to
win the game."
A defensive assistant coach (December 2014)
July 2015
The 2015 Quarterback Tiers survey featuring input from 35 league
insiders has Kaepernick ranked 18th, four spots lower than the
year before. Coaches and evaluators agree that Kaepernick has
never shown an ability to beat opponents from the pocket, which
is a big concern.
"This [past] year, Harbaugh allowed Kaepernick to get exposed a
little by trying to have him be the centerpiece of the offense
instead of what he does naturally: running," a pro personnel
director says. "He had him pressing to throw the ball. It showed
his arm strength but also his inaccuracy as a thrower. That is
not going to get better. He cannot be a [second-tier QB] by
being a dropback quarterback."
Why Colin Kaepernick makes sense for the Seahawks
If Colin Kaepernick doesn't land a starting gig, his
personality, mobility and lack of turnovers make him a match for
Seattle on and off the field.
Jim Harbaugh praises Colin Kaepernick for TIME's 100 most
influential people
Jim Harbaugh said in the essay that his former quarterback is
'an outstanding player' and showed courage off the field as well.
The 49ers' diminished personnel and offensive-coaching changes
heighten concerns about what lies ahead for Kaepernick.
"They do have a pretty good O-line, and they do run the ball
well," a different personnel director says. "They see eight-man
fronts. Decision-making and accuracy should be easier for him,
and they had a coordinator [Greg Roman] who did a great job
creating space in the run game and creating confusion, so teams
were simple. When he got behind and had to read defenses, he had
his struggles."
Oct. 15, 2015
The 49ers are three days removed from a 30-27 defeat to the
Giants that dropped their record to 1-4 under new coach Jim
Tomsula. The Fox broadcast crew mentioned on the air that
Kaepernick had been more engaged the previous week. News stories
written by Bay Area reporters suggest the same thing.
"I heard he walks around the building all day long with his
headphones on, eats lunch with his headphones on, doesn't talk
to anybody," an offensive coordinator from another team says.
"Maybe they addressed it."
November 2015
Tomsula announces that Blaine Gabbert will replace Kaepernick as
the team's starter, one day after a 20-3 home defeat to Seattle
dropped San Francisco's record to 2-5.
"I think they are catering to a traditional quarterback style
with their throws, with their plays," a personnel director says.
"When Kaepernick was having success, they were doing different
things. They were not having him just drop back, sit in the
pocket and make throws. They have gone to so much more of a
classic dropback now that it doesn't matter if it was Gabbert or
whoever. It is really crazy because they paid Kaepernick all
that money."
With Frank Gore gone and injuries affecting Carlos Hyde and
Reggie Bush, the 49ers no longer have a formidable running game
to build a cocoon around the quarterback. Kaepernick will
undergo surgery on his left shoulder later in the month.
"A lot can be said about the total change in offense and change
in staff and change in support," a different personnel director
says. "I think that is a big issue as well. You have an
individual who has regressed, but there are a lot of
contributing factors beyond just him getting worse."
"I think they are catering to a traditional quarterback style
with their throws, with their plays," a personnel director said
of the 49ers in 2015. Thearon W. Henderson/Getty Images
April 2016
Three months after the 49ers introduced Chip Kelly as their
third head coach in three seasons, they move forward with
Kaepernick on their roster after a trade never materialized.
Kaepernick shows up for the offseason program and is rehabbing
from January surgeries on his right thumb and left knee.
"My feeling is that their plan was to move on from Kaepernick,"
a team contract negotiator says. "If I am the new coach and I
want Kaepernick, I don't give a s--- what happened before I got
there. I sit the guy down and say, 'How can we fix this? I
believe in you.' None of that has happened. And I think Chip was
confident he could get a quarterback at 7 [in the draft] until
the Rams moved ahead of them. Now, I think they are kind of
Aug. 9, 2016
The 2016 Quarterback Tiers survey featuring input from 46
coaches and evaluators ranks Kaepernick 29th overall. Only
Gabbert, Mark Sanchez, Robert Griffin III and Case Keenum rank
lower than Kaepernick, who has dropped from 14th (2014) to 18th
(2015) to 29th in the annual survey. He's a fourth-tier
quarterback now. One evaluator puts him in the Sanchez category.
"Kaepernick is very disappointing, just watching him play last
year," a personnel director says. "Panicky. Whether he was not
comfortable in the system or whatever, he was like a guy who
didn't belong at the position, like he had never seen defensive
coverages before. He didn't trust in his offense, didn't trust
in the line, didn't trust in his receivers, and a lot of time,
he didn't trust in what his ability was."
Most insiders correctly predict that Kelly will name Gabbert the
starter -- not Kaepernick.
"There is something missing there with him," an offensive
coordinator says of Kaepernick. "I don't know what it is. Maybe
it is the desire to play. That is the feeling that I get from
watching him and when he talks about
John Walsh <jwalsh589@gmail.com>: May 24 03:57PM -1000

On Wed, 24 May 2017 07:33:37 -0700 (PDT), Benard Atkins
> he is slimmer, and he has never been an accurate passer. You take away the
> element of being able to run the ball, and he can't throw it, I mean, then what
> do you have left? There are many other better options."
No offense, but what the hell have I been saying for the last three
years? Anything about what the coaches and GM have said that doesn't
sound just a bit familiar?
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