Digest for alt.sports.baseball.sf-giants@googlegroups.com - 9 updates in 6 topics

Wednesday, May 10, 2017

poldy <poldy@kfu.com>: May 09 12:33PM -0700

On 5/9/17 12:21 AM, Awesome Giants wrote:
> in Game 1? What??? :-D
 
> But I totally agree that we did have luck on our side, or as Giants
> fans like to call it, "October Magic". :-)
 
 
Yeah luck is never a bad thing. I'd forgotten about Ross.
 
When the Giants lost to the Angels, I wasn't too heartbroken because to
even reach the WS at that point seemed like playing with house money.
 
But my recollection is that the Giants were beaten by nobodies getting
big hits too.
 
 
However, Sabean depended on a lot of these vets, picked off the scrap
heaps of other teams, to play key roles, at least getting to the
playoffs, not necessarily to get big hits in them.
 
 
Right now, it's the same strategy, lean on pitching and fill in the
lineup with whatever they can get.
 
It seems like they're strategy is to grind out a lot of close games,
because they don't have the consistent offense to win a lot of games
comfortably.
 
This worked for them in the past but I think last year they had a
horrible record in one-run games or blown saves or late-game losses.
And with games like last night, that trend seems to be continuing.
 
In the late '80s, in one of the last seasons for the 49ers under Bill
Walsh, they were upset by the NY Giants and Jeff Hostetler. 49ers had
been the consensus SB favorite.
 
Giants went on to win the SB and next year, as they defended, they
started to lose some close games. Walsh said that the Giants strategy
was to rely on their dominant defense and grind out 10-3 wins, because
their offense wasn't good. He said you just can't rely on winning many
games scoring only 1 or 2 TDs a game.
 
That's what the 2017 SF Giants seem to be built for, try to grind out
close wins with 3 or 4 runs a game at the most. But their pitching and
defense isn't good enough to hold teams under 3 runs.
Awesome Giants <Giants@sf.giants>: May 10 08:00AM


> When the Giants lost to the Angels, I wasn't too heartbroken
> because to even reach the WS at that point seemed like playing
> with house money.
 
But the Angels were also a WC team, so I guess both teams were
playing with house money. And of course, what was heartbreaking was
that the Giants had a 3 games to 2 lead in the WS, and had a 5-0
lead in Game 6. I think they were just 5 outs away from the title?
It was probably the worst bullpen collapse in franchise history
until last year. I found it impossible not to be heartbroken.
 
> But my recollection is that the Giants were beaten by nobodies
> getting big hits too.
 
Probably true. Like I said, it happens a lot more than you think.
 
> However, Sabean depended on a lot of these vets, picked off the
> scrap heaps of other teams, to play key roles, at least getting to
> the playoffs, not necessarily to get big hits in them.
 
Well, the entire pitching rotation besides Zito was home grown.
Plus Posey and Pablo in the infield. Freddy Sanchez was a batting
champ. Rowand was an AS and GG when we got him. Uribe had 24 HR
and 85 RBI. I don't think those guys came cheap. Huff had 26 HR
and 86 RBI. Torres hit 16 HR (does he count as half home grown? :-
D). Burrell hit 18 HR in 96 games and some huge hits against the
bums (he's had some good years so it's not a total surprise). I
think that team was known as one of the youngest teams in the league
for a couple of years, and I think you gave some of them too little
credit. And the strategy definitely worked. :-D

> Right now, it's the same strategy, lean on pitching and fill in
> the lineup with whatever they can get.
 
Seems like the power we have on this team is nowhere close to the
2010 team. We're not even scraping for vets now. We're relying on
homegrown rookies like Gorkys, Marrero, Arroyo... The only "vet" I
see in the lineup is Pence.
 
Before this year, we had Pagan, Span, and Pence in the OF, and none
of them came cheap. It's bad luck that Pagan became injury prone
and Span under-performed. Pence's been great for a couple of years,
instrumental in 2 championship runs, but he's definitely going
downhill, and injury prone.
 
I think this year, the main problem that is in their control is they
didn't address LF at all. Span we were stuck with; not much we can
do. And then the rest of the team were mostly the same team, but
they're just all under-performing. Besides Posey and maybe Panik,
everyone is hitting way below what it should be. Belt, Pence,
Nunez, they're all supposed to hit better and they're not going
anywhere (stuck on this team). Nothing we can do about them. They
just need to start hitting.
 
Crawford should help when he comes back, unless he under-performs
too.
 
The bullpen is still unreliable, though not as horrible as last
year. The rotation is in bad shape too and most of them are not
going anywhere (ie. not easily replaceable). Bumgarner was
unexpected. Samardzija looks more and more hopeless but has a
lengthy contract. Blach is off and on. Even Cueto is
underperforming. Cain was actually the surprise until the Cincy
game. Let's see which Cain shows up now.
 
> It seems like they're strategy is to grind out a lot of close
> games, because they don't have the consistent offense to win a lot
> of games comfortably.
 
Last year they were the best team in baseball for a half season, and
then the exact same team became the worst team in baseball in the
2nd half. So I'm not sure it's their strategy to grind out close
games. They already have a pretty high payroll, and most of them
are stuck here contract-wise. And they have nothing to trade. Not
much room to maneuver.
 
> horrible record in one-run games or blown saves or late-game
> losses. And with games like last night, that trend seems to be
> continuing.
 
Yep.
 
> In the late '80s, in one of the last seasons for the 49ers under
> Bill Walsh, they were upset by the NY Giants and Jeff Hostetler.
> 49ers had been the consensus SB favorite.
 
You must be talking about 1987 because Walsh won the SB in his final
year in 1988. I looked up 1987. We met the Giants in the 3rd game
of the season and we killed them 41-21. After that game the Giants
were 0-3, so they did pretty well to win the SB.
 
> strategy was to rely on their dominant defense and grind out 10-3
> wins, because their offense wasn't good. He said you just can't
> rely on winning many games scoring only 1 or 2 TDs a game.
 
Bill Walsh is always right! :-) Well, the Ravens did win with
defense only, but their defense was so good the defense was scoring
TDs. The QB (Trent Dilfer?) only needed to not throw INT.
 
> That's what the 2017 SF Giants seem to be built for, try to grind
> out close wins with 3 or 4 runs a game at the most. But their
> pitching and defense isn't good enough to hold teams under 3 runs.
 
Seems like too often they can't score 3 runs themselves. According
to wayne, their pitching is not dead last, but their offense is.
 
I think that's why most great teams besides the wealthy Yanks can
only sustain a great run for a few years tops. After a couple of
years, even your top players can get injured, decline, retired, get
traded, or lose to free agency. Teams just eventually fall apart.
You might have a few guys that stay good, but certainly not the
whole team.
 
And many teams win WS with some luck, and luck don't stay with you
forever.
John Walsh <jwalsh589@gmail.com>: May 09 05:07PM -1000


>giants find a way to lose, Maybe we just do not have the relievers to win, but worse, it seems as if Bochy has a knack for picking the wrong guy at the wrong time.
 
At least his average isn't plummeting like Belts. We don't have the
starters to win. Samardzija struck out a lot of batters, but also gave
up more runs than the Giants could generate.
 
Loved watching the outfields botch two plays.
Awesome Giants <Giants@sf.giants>: May 10 07:39AM


> giants find a way to lose, Maybe we just do not have the
> relievers to win, but worse, it seems as if Bochy has a knack for
> picking the wrong guy at the wrong time.
 
See, I told you guys. The top 2 guys on wayne's hate list:
 
1) Posey
2) Bochy
 
Note to the low IQ wayne who just doesn't seem to get it:
 
When everyone sucks, every pick is the wrong pick.
Awesome Giants <Giants@sf.giants>: May 10 07:38AM

When was the last time the Giants even had a save situation? Seems
like eons ago. How the hell did he get hurt? By dozing off in the
dugout? Injured due to inactivity?
Awesome Giants <Giants@sf.giants>: May 10 07:37AM

Another HR by Posey!
 
So far after our ragging, *all* his hits have been extra base hits - 2
HR and a double.
 
And today he was the only position player to even get a hit!
 
If this is not the greatest ragging ever, it's gotta be in the top 3!
 
And on this bowling day, the Giants got 2 hits!
Awesome Giants <Giants@sf.giants>: May 10 07:36AM

For this Mother's Day, do *NOT* buy her a Giants ticket. She might
just throw it in the trash.
poldy <poldy@kfu.com>: May 09 12:22PM -0700

On 5/8/17 11:56 PM, Awesome Giants wrote:
 
>> Supposedly 2017 will be a good draft so maybe they'll have better
>> luck (#19 pick).
> What do you think they'll draft, a pitcher?
 
 
Who knows, but maybe they should look at getting new scouting and
development coaches.
John Walsh <jwalsh589@gmail.com>: May 09 05:09PM -1000

>away either.
 
>Supposedly 2017 will be a good draft so maybe they'll have better luck
>(#19 pick).
 
They swooned early and often. They're not ging anywhere but deeper in
last place. They'll draft another infielder and some "promising"
pitchers. It's about time they took care of the outfield.
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